Paintball Scam - IPG

[gringle]

If anyone is tempted by the paintball offer at Bluewater and similar places be warned. This is a scam that will cost you money. I was duped into buying 10 tickets for ?60. The operative suggested I got cash from the machine opposite instead of paying a surcharge for a card and like a mug I got cash.

When I tried to book the games later I found the charges were not as I had been lead to believe and asked for a refund. I was told I could only have a refund if tickets were returned within 7 days. I had complained after two days, posted them back with proof the same day, but they were not signed for until a week later - this means they will not refund me.

I suspect the "customer service office" is only open one day a week so that you can never meet this criteria. I will be going to the office on Monday - in Wimbledon.

It's only ?60 but god help me if they are going to get away with that.

BE WARNED - AVOID IPG PAINTBALL AND DELTAFORCE SCAMS.

[Roundabout]

Have you contacted Bluewater and advised ? Company giving Bluewater bad name?

[gringle]

That is on my list of things to do - as well as going to their office and informing trading standards. I think I have also seen them at the Glades in Bromley.

[Darren Gray]

Thanks for sharing. Was planning/hoping to take my younger brother for a paintball adventure and will now be extra careful before parting with my money at least. May do Go karting instead.

[gringle]

The tactics used here was to sell cheap tickets for a group of 10 - excluding balls. They then said ?9.99 for the first hundred balls, ?6.99 thereafter. When I went to book that was ?9.99 per person - something they failed to mention (you need 300+ per child). I then asked to cancel the tickets as I dont like to be deceived. I had to return them within 7 days of purchase - I am not sure how legal this is. I posted them in good time but they didnt sign for them until 6 days after posting. Not sure why. The letter I got back was full of legalese, I signed the terms and conditions so its my fault. However, the sales scam is all set up so you dont read the small print, they dont tell you there is 7 days to change your mind, and they don't tell you you will pay the full price in the end. Internet search has shown this to be woldwide practive by delta force/ipg. If you want to spend 30 -40 quid per child I am sure it is a good day out - but it is certainly not a special offer.

[giggirl]

Hello Gringle,

Best of luck but they've been at this a long time. Here's a link to a thread on Moneysavingexpert.com which is a few years old but still an active thread

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=184661&page=1

worth a read

[gringle]

Thank you Giggirl.

This is getting more depressing.

I dont care about losing the money - I do care that some scam artist has lined his pockets at my expense.

This is bringing the worst out in me as I conspire to cause IPG as much damage as possible. Next time I see them in a shopping centre I will sabotage every possible sale!! And thats just the beginning....

[giggirl]

Gringle, my advice to is to take a deep breath and walk away. I know it's horrible when you get ripped off but stress is even worse. Even if you managed to get them to agree a refund in principle then, because they are so sharp, they'd do something nasty like deduct ?20 for "admin fees" or the like, which would take the shine off any victory that you felt.

The saying "revenge is a dish best served cold" is a cliche but there is some truth in it. For now, walk away and let it drop - that would be the best thing for you. If, the next time you were in Bluewater or wherever you happened to see a sale about to get finalised, and you happened to have a word in the mark's ear to tell them that this is going to end up costing them a lot more money than they think, then I would imagine that will be deeply satisfying.

Those paintball sales-people are everywhere. I've never engaged with them because it's not my thing, but a lot of people have read this thread and so take some comfort that you've probably warned a lot of people off signing up in future. Have a stiff drink and reflect on that.

[womanofdulwich]

I agree- I have been sorely tempted so many times- I am warned off and will tell everyone I know.

[Administrator]

I've received a complaint about this from a "Michelle May". I don't know which company she's from but if she's from the company mentioned above perhaps she could post her message on here instead of simply telling the forum:"If I do not receive any response within 7 days I will be taking the matter further and will be filing a libel and defamation lawsuit to ensure that this post is removed and the poster and money saving expert be sued."

However please be careful Gringle, they signed for the letter a week later so your issue may be with Royal Mail. And revenge may not be the best way to feel better against a company, they may have a case against you from what you've written.

[PokerTime]

Gringle, when you bought the tickets were you given a leaflet or anything outlining ammunition/ extra costs (per person)?

Paintballing is a fun day out but as anyone who's done it knows, it's the ammunition that determines how much you spend on the day.

If you were not adaquately informed of additional costs (per person), costs that would have been the difference between you buying the tickets on offer and not buying them, you may have a case for trading standards under the following legislation.

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/brighton-hove/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV1011-1111.txt

It would also be worth (as Admin) contacting the local sorting office to the company to see if delivery of your returned tickets was attempted before actual delivery. It may be that liability lies with Royal Mail for not delivering on time and they have a seperate claim process.

You can only be sued for defamation if you have lied about the facts. It's clear you feel you have been misled and that's the route to pursue. It may be that the company is not at fault but that its salespeople need retraining. Trading Standards would be able to advise on that.

Michelle May is Customer Services Manager at Delta Force Paintball. Maybe seeking a resolution with her directly and privately would lead to a goodwill gesture?

[Jeremy]

I think "scam" is a little strong, because this is basically standard practise as far as I can work out. Ticket prices are nominal, but the ammo can really cost a lot.

However, while this is fine for a bunch of 30-year-olds on a stag weekend, it is completely unsuitable for a children's party. The kids will obviously blast away indiscriminately, then cry when they run out, leaving the poor parent with a bill for hundreds of pounds. They should offer fixed priced packages, with a set amount of ammo which is allocated before each game.

[El Pibe]

For anyone who's actually been paintballing you'll know the costs dramatically escalate with ammunition, depending on how trigger happy you are. Some of my (more lunatic) friends on stags have easily spent upwards of a ton.

This just sounds more like lack of experience on gringle's part rather than a scam, though perhaps they could have been more transparent about the probable costs of a day out.

[DaveR]

"perhaps they could have been more transparent about the probable costs of a day out."

It is required by law.

Miss May should be well aware of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs which prohibit commercial practices i.e. sales pitches that omit 'material information', which is defined as "the information which the average consumer needs, according to the context, to take an informed transactional decision". If you haven't been paintballing before you probably don't know how many balls will be required, and therefore the likely total costs, but the company does, and there is a respectable argument that this is material information.

I'd also be interested to know which precise words are said to be libellous.

[ianr]

It's a pity that the discussion attempted in the Drawing room about the Defamation Act 2013 didn't get going.

Admin, I think you should, to cover your personal position, check now whether all the requirements of para.2 of the Defamation (Operators of Websites) Regulations 2013, as to what is required of a complaint, have been met. I suspect they haven't, in which case your immediate step would seem to be a response to the complainant along the lines of the last paragraph of column GC372 in the Lords Hansard discussion of the regulations: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhansrd/text/131119-gc0001.htm#13111956000130. At least the first speech is probably worth reading in full. There are other guides and commentaries to be found on the web too, but this one seems stated clearly and, obviously, with some authority.

If you think they have been met, there is other prescribed appropriate action, involving contacting the poster(s) of the allegaed defamatory material.

That said, IANAL.

[StraferJack]

If I was admin I would clip ianr around the ear for being a pedantic bore, wasting his time

[Administrator]

I actually found ianr's information a useful bat with which to return the ill-prepared defamation ball sent my way. I assume the person is reading this and would hopefully either write a reply to the original post or give me a proper request or give up.

[StraferJack]

I guess I wasn't aware of the behind the scenes goings on. I read ians post at face value. Apologies to him if I misjudged

[Alan Medic]

Why would ianr know more than you? At face value he was trying to help/inform which appears to be his m.o. on the forum. Good for him.

[numbers]

"trying to help/inform" "pedantic time-wasting bore"

oof.

tough crowd with SJ in the audience!

ianr always comes across as being helpful to others.

paintball. seems like a very 1990s thing or is that just me? bruises the size of a planet, over-zealous usually mild-mannered colleagues in army fatigues. nah, not for me.

[StraferJack]

Yeah I was harsh. Hands up

And I'm a big fan of ianr generally. Was surprised by the directness of his post and got my radar confused.

[Jeremy]

I hate paintball. It hurts. It attracts morons. You usually get covered in mud. And it hurts... again.

[PokerTime]

I never got hurt paintballing, but did enjoy my new found ability to shoot with such accuracy at the face mask! Aiming between the eyes rendered the opposition helpless whilst I charged with my paint grenade!!!! And yes I spent around ?150 that day, but it was sooooo worth it :D

[KidKruger]

Paint ball.

Pretending to shoot people with guns, the one thing we all claim to want to stop in the world - and doing it for fun.

Abhorrent along with paedo-ball and rape-ball.

[numbers]

Thought you weren't allowed to aim for the face!!!

Perhaps it's changed since I last went (90s)! Paintball does hurt.

(Ah sorry SJ you'd already apologised I shouldn't have brought it up again. )