why having kids is the best thing ever

[Jah Lush]

I don't have kids but it's not something I'd ever rule out. I just haven't met the right person to have them with.

[mockney piers]

I'll see what I can do, though no promises. I'll be an uncle in about 6 months, perhaps you can fawn on a little Mockney D when I'm on baby sitting duty.

[KalamityKel]

"why having kids is the best thing ever"... tis a great excuse to go see "kids" stuff, get messy without giving two hoots and sharing ur knowledge and watching them grow into little individuals :)) does it for me!

[*Bob*]

A few random thoughts...

Barring a few essentials you can't avoid, children are as expensive as you make them.

'Liking children' (that oft-touted phrase) - or not - is a bizarre concept and this becomes especially apparent when you've had them and mix with others. They're just little people, and you'll like and dislike just as many of them as you do the bigger versions.

There's no need to start wearing cardigans and washing the car every Sunday just because you're a parent. You get still do all the things you did before, only less frequently and with a bit more planning.

Hardly anyone ever regrets having them.

[Moos]

Mais non, *Bob*, did anyone read this recently published book about how having children isn't all it's cracked up to be? Apparently it's not to be taken entirely seriously, and is attempting to topple French idealism towards children, but promises an interesting read.

On your 'liking children' point, although attempts to halt generalisation are always to be applauded, I'd argue there is some truth in being able to say one does or does not 'like children'. Not all kids are the same, and anyway the definition usually seems to mean young children - but there is a general kid-ness which could be defined as brutal frankness, energy, a tendency to see the world in a very egocentric way, and a general lack of behavioural filters. Which one might find charming. Or not.

[*Bob*]

I didn't quite mean that.

Hardly anyone 'likes children' before they have them. And rightly so.

[Jah Lush]

I like kids but I couldn't eat a whole one.

[Moos]

Really? Do you think so? Plenty of people on this thread alone..

I think I'm missing your point again, soz.

Edit to say - come now, Jah, you're not trying. A lovely plumpy baby? Delicious!

[*Bob*]

I explained it badly. (One should never try to type and play the kazoo at the same time).

What I meant was: when you 'join the club' a lot of people automatically assume that (now you've got one) you must 'like children'. ie all children. Especially theirs.

People say all sorts of things on internet forums.

I'm afraid that Britain is a nation of child-haters. And London is it's capital city.

[Brendan]

I like kids. Having once been one myself I tend to identify with them more so than with adults who I am still trying to get used to.

[Moos]

People do indeed say all sorts of things on internet forums.

A particularly brilliant way to prove a particularly fatuous point, albeit with the *Bob* spin and polish that we have come to expect from the EDF's foremost columnist. I salute you, sir.

[NatashaD]

If I am being honest, I would say I like my own children, but am not really fussed about other people's. I find it irritating being in environments with little children. In short, it isn't 'me'.

Moos you are quite right when you say "but there is a general kid-ness which could be defined as brutal frankness, energy, a tendency to see the world in a very egocentric way, and a general lack of behavioural filters. Which one might find charming. Or not."

I find all that you list deeply annoying, but part and parcel of having kids. I am not quite sure why I had children. I certainly didn't have an 'overwhelming urge', but nor did I leave it 'til mid/late 30s as I didn't want to be a much 'older' mother. Parenting is knackering at any age, but MUST be even more knackering for older parents.

So why did I have children? I think the answer is that I didn't want to go through life 'childless', and I kept being 'reminded' by all and sundry that they (kids) 'enhance' your life; make you a 'less selfish person' etc. I wish people had been as honest as I am about the downsides of parenting.

[Keef]

I kind of like children, but when they go off on one, I find myself wanting to say "what aaaare you doing?", or "'ave a word with yourself mate". And when I let them beat me in a game, and they start getting all cocky about it, and saying they can beat me any time, I do find it hard not to absolutely destroy them next time round, just to bring them down a peg or 2... Maybe I'm best off childless :-S

[Brendan]

lol. That's called getting sledged by a 10 year old Keef.

[Keef]

So is it okay to bowl a bouncer at a 10 year old?

[*Bob*]

What game was it, Keef?

Was it 'Hungy Hippos', or 'Operation'?

[Moos]

Keef is Competitive Dad from The Fast Show!

[Brendan]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So is it okay to bowl a bouncer at a 10 year old?

How else are they going to learn how to play a hook shot?

[Keef]

No Moos, he was competitive with other dads, I am far more petty!

[Moos]

Wasn't he competitive with the kid? I'm sure he was.

[lozzyloz]

I wish people had been as honest as I am about the downsides of parenting.

Surely as a child/teenager you must have had inkling that parenting wasn't just a bed of roses? You make the choice of parenting sound like trying out a handy household tip from advice section of Womans Own magazine only to discover later that you're more a Heat magazine reader.

[Keef]

Oh actually you're right, sorry, I was thinking of a real life person who we called competitive dad, doh!

[SeanMacGabhann]

Lozzyloz - you can have an inkling but when the world in general is encouraging you to take the plunge, and/or if your partner is overly optimistic it can be easy to be swept along. Or impossible to say no

Hypothetically speaking

[Moos]

Loz, I do think people can be dishonest about some of the downsides of parenting, and in particular feel really guilty about admitting that there are times when they'd like to send them back! I found when on maternity leave that other mothers would (in groups) say that everything was great and their child was a wonder, but in private admit to feeling depressed and trapped. For me the way to get over it was to share with other people who were understanding, and turn it into a laugh. It's very very easy to get into a downward spiral if you don't get out of the house enough and meet up with other people in the same situation, which helps you regain perspective.

[lozzyloz]

When people are in a relationship then I can understand the peer pressure that can suddenly consume you but given the stark reality message that most mothers (and some dads) will tell you, then surely this would offset the notion that having kids is just happy families. Unless of course you live on a diet of Brady Bunch repeats.