Pellatt Road Mural

[Earl Aelfheah]

There are lot's of great works of art (I'm not suggesting this is one), which have been produced by people of questionable character. There is nothing about the Pellat Mural that is itself racist.

It's an interesting question about whether a work of art should stand apart from the actions of the artist.

[Earl Aelfheah]

For the record, I still like to listen to The Smiths even though Morrissey has some pretty awful opinions.

[Sue]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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>

> It's an interesting question about whether a work

> of art should stand apart from the actions of the

> artist.

Indeed.

Same with music, poetry, novels .....

[Chthonic]

I agree, and of course it IS a very thorny problem; in this case I think it's made far simpler, as the artist's views are expressed IN the work. He's a politically-motivated artist whose beliefs are expressed IN his murals.

From a Reddit thread: The Artist ("Mear One")

If that wasn't enough, "Mear One" (the artist) described the local controversy thus: "Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are." - thus specifically linking his mural to the conspiracy theory that the Rothschilds are part of a shadowy "New World Order" or "Illuminati".

Mear One also claims that the characters are "Jews and white anglos" and complains that "for some reason they are saying I am anti-semitic".

[Chthonic]

...still, I'm not saying it should go; just that it makes me squirm every time I see it (every day), knowing its associations. And that's some kudos to give an artist - such a huge, prominent mural. Just wanted people to be aware of its provenance.

[precious star]

I dont like the painting. I dont like the stars and i dont like the fist. All the others on lordship lane i like,

[Lynne]

It makes me think that if there's going to be very prominent public art, we the community who have to look at it all the time, should have some say in the choice.

[singalto]

I don?t like the painting. I love the other paintings, particularly the one of the queen and the pirates..

[OhBoohoo]

Made an account just to say that I love the mural.

[Sue]

Lynne Wrote:

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> It makes me think that if there's going to be very

> prominent public art, we the community who have to

> look at it all the time, should have some say in

> the choice.

But art, like music, is a very personal thing.

Some people will love a particular piece, others will hate it.

Plus how would you go about consulting everybody each time to make sure everybody was included?

Personally, I like most of the street art in this area, and some I like a lot, so I can live with this one (which I don't).

[heartblock]

I personally don?t like it and didn?t like the other mural being disscussed here. I don?t think his murals are particularly my taste, I find them a bit crass. All the other street art in ED has made me smile, laugh or amazed me. I really miss the house which was covered with art that was demolished, but art is subjective.

As for bringing politics into whether art/music is acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the question how far back in history one goes. Wagner, Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey. Maybe it would be a better use of people?s energy to be concerned about and fight against the worrying rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right across Europe.

[Sue]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As for bringing politics into whether art/music is

> acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the

> question how far back in history one goes. Wagner,

> Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey. Maybe

> it would be a better use of people?s energy to be

> concerned about and fight against the worrying

> rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right

> across Europe.

Agreed.

[Chthonic]

And how do you do that? Personally I don't think ignoring it when you find it on your own doorstep is a good start.

[colville09]

It seems very simplistic and wrong to accuse the painter of being 'the antisemitic artist' and 'the racist artist' rather than the fact that once in the past someone interpreted a small part of one of his works as being open to misinterpretation. Actually I like this mural and can't think of any way this particular image could be said to be racist so I don't understand the 'ignoring it on your own doorstep' bit. I agree the rise of the far right here is the real concern.

[rendelharris]

colville09 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems very simplistic and wrong to accuse the

> painter of being 'the antisemitic artist' and 'the

> racist artist' rather than the fact that once in

> the past someone interpreted a small part of one

> of his works as being open to misinterpretation.

> Actually I like this mural and can't think of any

> way this particular image could be said to be

> racist so I don't understand the 'ignoring it on

> your own doorstep' bit. I agree the rise of the

> far right here is the real concern.

The whole of Mear One's "Freedom for Humanity" mural was staggeringly antisemitic - it wasn't a "small part of it" and it wasn't "open to misinterpretation", it was virulently and horribly antisemitic (and I speak as a pro-Palestinian, Israel back to pre-67 borders person) - even Jeremy Corbyn said after initially objecting to its removal: "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic." I don't see anything antisemitic in the ED mural, but to deny the antisemitism in the "Freedom for Humanity" mural - now that's "simplistic and wrong".

[rendelharris]

> heartblock Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > As for bringing politics into whether art/music

> is

> > acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the

> > question how far back in history one goes.

> Wagner,

> > Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey.

> Maybe

> > it would be a better use of people?s energy to

> be

> > concerned about and fight against the worrying

> > rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right

> > across Europe.

Indeed - and part of that would be opposing virulently antisemitic murals being allowed, no (The "Freedom of Humanity" one, not the ED one)? Art and literature are not separate from society and politics, they are intimately intertwined with it; giving an antisemitic work of art a free pass on the grounds that it's art is nonsensical. In terms of antisemitism in the art of the past (Wagner, Eliot - even George Orwell), well, we can interpret that in terms of the culture of the time and so forth and make our decisions. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be opposed every time it rears its foul head in our own time.

[Chthonic]

Thanks, rendelharris; my feelings exactly, just better expressed than I could. This is why I kind of shudder every time I see this mural.

[Inkmaiden]

heartblock Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> As for bringing politics into whether art/music is

> acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the

> question how far back in history one goes. Wagner,

> Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey. Maybe

> it would be a better use of people?s energy to be

> concerned about and fight against the worrying

> rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right

> across Europe.

Holding someone to account for expressing blatantly antisemitic propaganda/conspiracy theories in public is not ?bringing politics into whether art/music is acceptable?, it IS part of the the fight against the rise in antisemitism. It is such a cop out to cite the ?well, that?s just how they thought back then, it?s art innit?? argument, which does not apply in any way to Mear One, who is doing this now. Why should he be rewarded with the opportunity to profit in any way with further exposure of his art work?

From the Guardian yesterday : ?Britons make 170,000 antisemitic Google searches a year?, many specifically referencing the Rothschild ?New World Order? conspiracy theory. I don?t understand how you can think the worrying rise in antisemitism and the far right is not connected to art such as Mear One?s ?Freedom of Humanity? mural, when his antisemitism was legitimised by being emblazoned across a wall in a public place?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jan/11/uk-thousands-antisemitic-google-searches-per-year-research

[alice]

So 0.0006% of google searches look up words like Zionism.

How you draw your conclusions from that is not clear.

[Chthonic]

Agreed, inkmaiden. Though of course anti-semitism from the right is business as usual; now we're seeing it- and especially from the 'new world order' conspiracy angle, from the left too. And I think it's that that people are being squeamish about addressing.

[Birdynamnam]

.

[i*Rate]

Chthonic,

Yes, it bothers me a bit too. They were selling prints of 'That Mural' in Dulwich Village in a pop-up shop a while ago and I must admit the penny didn't drop then.

Unfortunately, Jeremy Corbyn didn't realize why it was painted out in the East End; a big political mistake for him, I think!

Cheers

[Chthonic]

Yes, he must be the 'unluckiest' politician of all time in this regard. Present but not involved.