I feel hostile towards french looking people today

[KiM]

I am rally sorry that Azul had a bad experience in France and that it drove him to be a little racist (oups sorry, sarcastic)

A couple of weeks ago I was on holiday with my best friend when a group of Dutch people started abusing the (all) British for being drunks and messing things up when going abroad.

Needless to say, my English friend was not impressed about the level of abuse and generalisation.

I spent quite some time trying to explain to them that they were getting it wrong if they really thought that all British were like that.

I guess that was my point. (For those who didn?t get it)

Thanks DEclan for understanding it really means a lot. It is never nice to be reminded that you are a little ?different?

Also, I would like to point out that I didn?t say English people were arrogant, in fact I said that this was the first time I ?heard? this kind of talk against French people in so many years. It is just a shame this is happening in ED, out of all places.

Thanks for all English and British in general who welcomed me as a person in the alst 8 years without putting the ?French? label on my forehead. I know they are the majority (In my case).

And Tinagwee I am glad you think it is less offensive to abuse French people than abusing other minorities. Keep telling you that ;)

All right guys, take it easy!

[Brendan]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Perhaps you have been in England too long Azul and

> you are starting to catch it, the English that is.

> One of the first symptoms is an irrational dislike

> of French people.

>

> Have you recently considered wearing a pink shirt

> or been preoccupied with the weather?

I would like to categorically apologise for the offence my previous post must have caused to English people. I was clearly being racist or worse by implying that Englishness was some sort of condition which manifests in disliking the French, bad fashion sense and limited conversation skills.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Unfortunately it manifests itself by being useless at cricket.

[Brendan]

Awww. I find that a bit endearing actually.

[Narnia]

tinagwee Wrote:

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> VeryBerryCherry Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > What is the difference from those comments that

> > were found offensive, and those above? What

> makes

> > it "ok" to make these sorts of comment towards

> the

> > French and not travellers or black people?

> >

> >

> > Not that I want to condone racism or culturalism

> against anyone on this earth, but I do think

> people feel more free to say things about a

> nation and its people in a jokey way, who are not

> marginalised, poor, or generally in any way under

> threat from any country and are not an ethnic

> minority, (and France, lets face it were

> themselves pretty good at the old colonialism as

> england in the past), that they are more up for

> being taken the piss out of in a mock

> argumentative way, the way the ozzies and english

> do to each other for example. Travellers are a

> very much marginalised and misunderstood group of

> people and black people are still experiencing

> genuine inequality across the globe meaning it is

> like kicking a man when he is down if you are

> taking the piss or being racist and therefore a

> lot more meaningful and dangerous and

> unacceptable. The French are not the underdogs in

> any arena I feel. It may be a small difference

> when using sarcastic humour but an important one I

> feel.

You make very good points VBC and I can't disagree with anything you have written. My post was written to show some solidarity with Kim as the heading of the thread contained no humour and thus could only be taken as a genuine put down of all things French. My boss at work has travelled all over the world but would never contemplate going to France because of his views of the French. Ironically my company was taken over a few months ago..........we are now owned by a French company. Ce la vie!

[Narnia]

RosieH Wrote:

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> Quite so. As i have said on a couple of

> occasions, I am quite the francophile, but anyone

> who can come on here espousing the arrogance of

> the english at the expense of the pauvres francais

> is un petit peu, how do you say, doolally.

>

> And I know we like personal experience on this

> forum, so let me say now, I have lived in France.

> I love the French. But come on, English

> arrogance, reallv?? When we are ze stupid

> rosbifs?? London derby, Manchester derby, sibling

> rivalry, Moliere, Shakespeare and all that car

> advert jazz

The trouble with arrogance is that you are not aware of it so wouldn't expect you to recognise it.

[Narnia]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

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> "The English are arrogant" - an easy and frankly

> lazy pop which is a great stand-by in the absence

> of any other angle; I believe the same thing is

> being trotted out by one Robert Mugabe. It does

> rather seem that making such comments about the

> English is allowed, reciprocation is racist.

>

> There is a long history of (relatively) friendly

> barracking between the English and the French.

> Having said that, this should at least attempt to

> be witty and the term "Tosser" is not witty and is

> just abusive ... Should Try Harder.

>

> The French get brickbats thrown at them BECAUSE

> (for the most part) they can take it and give it

> and have been for centuries. There isnt actually

> any history of systematic and current

> discrimination against them, unlike many of the

> other groups mentioned above.

What other angle do you wan't. You go abroad and get upset with bloody foreigners if they don't understand your language. Your football supporters tend to think there is a war going on. I remember being told a story going back to Euro 88. Ireland beat England in Germany. My friend was in a large bar after the match full of celebrating Irish supporters. In come a few (admittedly) English fans who proceed to push their way to the bar to order drinks. It was obvious to those there that their intentions were not just to have a drink. They were hugely outnumbered though and it wouldn't have taken a lot to put them in their place if that was the way we did things. Instead a voice cried out to the masses 'right lads, lets go outside'. Everyone took their drinks outside and the left the bar for the sole use of the troublemakers.

A lazy pop.....these are your people who tried to civilise the world. What a job you made of that! As for comparing my angle to that of Robert Mugabe, you need to read some history. What Mugabe is doing to his people is little different to what the English did in Ireland during the famine. You were exporting food in a country dying of starvation.

Enough said.

[SeanMacGabhann]

during the famine, if the Irish could afford to emigrate they could have afforded a meal in a reasonable restaurant

And it wasn't a famine anyway it was a potato blight - and if you are a picky eater you will pay the price..

(yes yes apologies - those two remarks are Alan Partridge's , not mine. Still funny tho' )

[Narnia]

I'd find it funny if I wasn't so annoyed.

[Keef]

Do the Irish seriously find the English arrogant?

[*Bob*]

Good God.. if you can't have a go at the French, who can you have a go at?

Apart from the lazy Italians, humourless Germans, boring Belgians and slightly odd Swiss, of course.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Why so annoyed tho' Declan - you've made some good points in this thread and only about 3 o clock did you seem to get a bit more heated

I don't think I was one of your friends in that pub but I can say I have thrice been in bars watching an Irish game when English fans kicked off - the last time was that ill-fated game in Dublin. For that one I was in a genteel pub in Exeter and all of the quite posh blooks were cheering as hooligans tore the stadium apart. But they were knobs with a misplaced patriotic pride. They weren't cheering because they were English - they were cheering because they were knobs

I used to have a chip on my shoulder about what I perceived to be English arrogance - but surprise surprise, living here has disabused me of that notion. And if I do still encounter someone with an air of English superiority from time to time - well... we Irish are more than capable of generalising too. So I ignore knobs from both camps

[*Bob*]

But I won't have a word said against the plucky Irish.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for those Corn Laws, which were very naughty.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Speaking for my people Keef... ;-) - oh ok then, speaking for me..

There IS a certain type of English person who likes to use the history between both countries to try and be the big man. And yes the English have a poor history with regard to the treatment of Irish (B&Bs with no black no dogs no Irish in the window doesn't scream "parity" does it?)

But most of that is history and I rarely encounter a dodgy attitude any more. Then again I don't go to Swindon any more either... But no I don't find English people to be especially arrogant

[Keef]

No doubt history doesn't show us in a good light, in fact it doesn't really show us in a good light anywhere, but these days I think we are just as patriotic as the next lot.

As you said Sean, knobs are knobs, wherever they're from. I have met some complete cocky w@nkers from Ireland, and been best mates with Irish people, I'm pretty sure the cocky w@nkers would have been equally as cocky had they been born in Dulwich, Glasgow or Paris, and I still would have been mates with the nice ones.

[HonaloochieB]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> >

> Speaking for my people Keef... ;-) - oh ok then,

> speaking for me..

>

> There IS a certain type of English person who

> likes to use the history between both countries to

> try and be the big man. And yes the English have a

> poor history with regard to the treatment of Irish

> (B&Bs with no black no dogs no Irish in the window

> doesn't scream "parity" does it?)

Honestly the way Paddies pronounce 'party' cracks me up.

Filum, that's another one.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Exactly right Keef

[Narnia]

Keef Wrote:

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> Do the Irish seriously find the English arrogant?

I can only speak for me so I'm in a minority.I don't find the English arrogant on the whole but there has to be a reason why the 'Celts' for example almost wish you lose at everything. I know I am narrowing this down to the sporting world but that may be the best example in the modern age why people may feel there is arrogence.You sort of expect to do well and don't understand if you are not good enough. In the past it may have been to do with the colonies and your conquests. An idea that you can civilise these people.

On the other hand those people in Wales who will speak in Welsh if an English person enters the room to make them feel outsiders deserve sheep, and the Scots who sing about the Flower of Scotland but don't have the balls to be independent make me sick.

This thread started with an unfair comment on the French. I just thought I'd throw in my halfpenny's worth on the subject. The bottom line is that as humans we have more in common where ever we come from than we do have differences.

Does that in anyway answer your question?

[DaveR]

"there has to be a reason why the 'Celts' for example almost wish you lose at everything"

There is - inferiority complex. But we won't hold that against you.

[Narnia]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why so annoyed tho' Declan - you've made some good

> points in this thread and only about 3 o clock did

> you seem to get a bit more heated

>

> I don't think I was one of your friends in that

> pub but I can say I have thrice been in bars

> watching an Irish game when English fans kicked

> off - the last time was that ill-fated game in

> Dublin. For that one I was in a genteel pub in

> Exeter and all of the quite posh blooks were

> cheering as hooligans tore the stadium apart. But

> they were knobs with a misplaced patriotic pride.

> They weren't cheering because they were English -

> they were cheering because they were knobs

>

> I used to have a chip on my shoulder about what I

> perceived to be English arrogance - but surprise

> surprise, living here has disabused me of that

> notion. And if I do still encounter someone with

> an air of English superiority from time to time -

> well... we Irish are more than capable of

> generalising too. So I ignore knobs from both

> camps

Well Sean if 3 o clock is when I became more heated it's probably because I just came back from the dentisht and he wants to take a feckin tooth out tomorrow.

I actually like the English in general and don't consider the most of them to be arrogant. In fact they have characteristics that the Irish should envy in some respects. I remember first coming here and realising after a while that people took what you said to mean EXACTLY what you said. It's taken my Spanish wife years to come to terms with the concept that you might mean something else. There was no room for 'ah shure jeysus I was only joking' type of thing. What you said is what you meant, except it wasn't necessairly. I had to adjust to that but in some respects it was a good thing in that there was no room for misunderstanding.

However it takes a hell of a lot of fun out of a conversation if you start saying what you mean straight away.

[mockney piers]

There's a certain breed of football fan who is, unquestionably, arrogant and deeply unpleasant, but to call the English Arrogant from that is a ridiculous sweeping statement.

English fans won the best fans in both Portugal and ironically in switzerland/austria as real fans of football went out rather than the thugs that follow the national team.

Cricket fans will give a standing ovation to other teams and players when they've performed well.

Of course there are arrogant people in England, I've met their alter egos in Ireland and Spain enough times too, but the English" "arrogant", I don't think so.

The 'Celts' ABE thing is rather pathetic thoughisn't it and smacks entirely of a chip on the shoulder. I read some excellent editorials in Ireland at the time of that Croke Park ruby game which bemoaned this trend and said "isn't about time we got over it" hear hear I say.

Although I'm with you on the bizarre expectation heaped upon the England team when really it's obvious to all and sundry that wEngland's a pretty average team that doesn't deserve silverware. I couldn't believe Tim & Simon On Something for the weekend at the end of Euro 2008 saying that England could have won the tournament. Err you couldn't beat Croatia, what makes you think you could have beaten Spain or Germany or errr Croatia!?!?! Idiots.

*edited* - great, spend 10 minutes writing this only for Declan to say "of course I don't think all English are arrogant" typical ;-)

[Narnia]

DaveR Wrote:

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> "there has to be a reason why the 'Celts' for

> example almost wish you lose at everything"

>

> There is - inferiority complex. But we won't hold

> that against you.

Tanks for enlightening me. I've an inferiority complex and you're not arrogant. Wish someone had told me this before!

[Brendan]

So if you didn't insist on firstly playing soccer and secondly being shite at it you would all get along fine.

[Narnia]

Brendan Wrote:

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> So if you didn't insist on firstly playing soccer

> and secondly being shite at it you would all get

> along fine.

Brendan, I take your South Africian with a name like that? If you ignore the 'soccer' there's always the rugby to get upset about. After that there's a whole other list of excuses for not getting on...............the 1916 rebellion, the Black and Tans, just to name a couple. However all was forgiven in 1973 when the English travelled to Dublin to fulfill a rugby fixture that the Scots and Welsh thought too dangerous the previous year. We could have had a grand slam that year as we won the other two matches. Interestingly in that year the French came over to play a friendly to help the IRFU as we had no income due to the cancelled matches. In 73 at the after dinner speeches the English captain whose name I can't recall stated that 'we may not be any good but at least we turn up'. Their reception at Lansdowne Road when they took to the pitch was even greater than that given to the home team.

[Michael Palaeologus]

I cant accept that the experience of a "friend in a pub" is an accurate reflection of the state of the English race.

Funnily enough I DONT go to France and expect them to speak English. I speak French, badly. The French, hating to hear their lovely language being butchered respond in perfect English. There is a difference.

I cannot accept that the behaviour and attitudes of a bunch of thuggish soccer so-called-supporters can be taken as indictive of that of the rest of us. The vast majority of English sports fans are entirely reasonable and a positive facet of our society, some of them are quite cuddly.

Historically, the English have at times behaved atrociously, and at times the English have behaved laudibly. We have many things to be ashamed of and many things to be proud of.

However the 21st Century English have nothing to be overwhelmingly arrogant about or overwhelmingly ashamed of. We just are what we are.

The "Arrogant" thing is just a lazy pop - if you want to have a pop, be original or witty or preferably, both.