wearing real fur...

[woodrot]

seems to have lost its pariah status these days, wot wiv chippy market traders on the delightful NCR selling motheaten jackets and the like

are we still anti fur in ED or is it acceptable ? - unless its kitty fur of course( and their "mums" and "dads" would probabaly kick off and mass disorder on the quirky Lordship Lane would blates ensue )

[Burbage]

woodrot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> are we still anti fur in ED or is it acceptable ?

> - unless its kitty fur of course

If you read the Taxidermy thread, you'll find kitty fur is most acceptable, and it's only the lack of practiced cat-skinning artisans that prevents its widespread use.

Which suggests, even to my jaundiced mind, that a match made in heaven may be looming round your corner.

[woodrot]

these days it is difficult to obtain enough colour matched mewling newborns to create a presentable pair of winter gloves.My wholesale contact at the Celia hammond can only offer mixed bags of emaciated tabby and ginger, due to the recession apparently. A young person with style and panache should never been seen in public with ginger tom gloves.

[LadyNorwood]

woodrot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> these days it is difficult to obtain enough colour

> matched mewling newborns to create a presentable

> pair of winter gloves.My wholesale contact at the

> Celia hammond can only offer mixed bags of

> emaciated tabby and ginger, due to the recession

> apparently. A young person with style and panache

> should never been seen in public with ginger tom

> gloves.

"ginger tom gloves" - now that's a whole different ball game.....

[PeckhamRose]

I have always abhorred it. I was a member of Lynx in the old days before the Fur Trade took them to court and they lost and went under. Linda McCartney photographed their astounding adverts (about wearing second hand coats because the animals wore them first). Paul could have saved Lynx and not noticed the difference in his bank balance.

And now we hear about UGG boots, with photographs of sheep with - literally - their skins ripped off their backs in order to make said boots as they are indeed made of sheepskin.

And yet, to show I am not smug and perfect, I do wear leather shoes. My only - albeit confused - consolation to myself is that leather is a byproduct of the meat industry, the animals are killed for meat and the skins taken off afterwards. This does not always happen with the poor UGG sheep.

I am not sure I even like the idea of wearing fake fur: it sort of advertises real fur by default. Oh well. But I am not in ED so you're not seeking my opinions anyway ;) :)

[DulwichFox]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have always abhorred it. I was a member of Lynx

> in the old days before the Fur Trade took them to

> court and they lost and went under. Linda

> McCartney photographed their astounding adverts

> (about wearing second hand coats because the

> animals wore them first). Paul could have saved

> Lynx and not noticed the difference in his bank

> balance.

>

> And now we hear about UGG boots, with photographs

> of sheep with - literally - their skins ripped off

> their backs in order to make said boots as they

> are indeed made of sheepskin.

>

> And yet, to show I am not smug and perfect, I do

> wear leather shoes. My only - albeit confused -

> consolation to myself is that leather is a

> byproduct of the meat industry, the animals are

> killed for meat and the skins taken off

> afterwards. This does not always happen with the

> poor UGG sheep.

>

> I am not sure I even like the idea of wearing fake

> fur: it sort of advertises real fur by default. Oh

> well. But I am not in ED so you're not seeking my

> opinions anyway ;) :)

This is the Lounge and Fur is not an E.D. issue. It is a Global Issue. ED is a small part of the Globe.

All opinions valid on such an emotive issue.

Fur is not a By-Product. We do not eat Foxes, Mink and all the other creatures used in the fur trade.

Animals literally can be skinned alive. (in certain countries)

Most of the practices go unmonitored and in a clandestine manner.

Fur keeps animals warm because the fur traps air and is part of their skin.

Fur does not keep people warm in the same manner. That is why Arctic explorers wear synthetic materials and not fur.

Fur does not make people look beautiful.

Fur is cruel. There is no place for it.

DulwichFox

[numbers]

DulwichFox Wrote:

> This is the Lounge and Fur is not an E.D. issue.

> It is a Global Issue. ED is a small part of the

> Globe.

> All opinions valid on such an emotive issue.

Whilst all opinions are of course valid, I think PR was just replying to the OP's original question as to whether 'we are still anti-fur in ED or is it acceptable now'...

Anyway, I think those wearing 'vintage' (oh so that's oh-kay then?!) rabbit gilets have a lot to answer for.

[PeckhamRose]

I agree Dulwich Fox which is why I wrote what I wrote; Lynx indeed captured my feelings about this.

And yes, you're right numbers. I was!

Even mayors, who have traditional used Ermine in their robes, now have alternatives.

[Loz]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And now we hear about UGG boots, with photographs of sheep with - literally - their skins ripped off

> their backs in order to make said boots as they are indeed made of sheepskin.

A bit different, since sheep are killed for their meat and the skins a by-product.

[NewWave]

I am happy to wear second hand fur, HOWEVER even if I could afford it i'd never buy a new fur coat.

And likewise I abhor those new rabbit fur gilet things they sell in the markets-they come from China and I'm always thinking it may well be cat.

[PeckhamRose]

Loz, no, sheep are being killed for skin - sometimes they are having their skin taken off them before they are dead. There is research and evidence about this for UGG boots.

Meanwhile, a petition.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/harvey-nichols-stop-selling-real-fur?share_id=dClZMFciWU&utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

[PeckhamRose]

Sheep torture for UGG boots.

Petition to stop it.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ugg-australia-stop-mutilating-torturing-and-killing-sheep-to-make-ugg-boots

[aquarius moon]

NewWave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am happy to wear second hand fur, HOWEVER even

> if I could afford it i'd never buy a new fur

> coat.

> And likewise I abhor those new rabbit fur gilet

> things they sell in the markets-they come from

> China and I'm always thinking it may well be cat.

What's the difference between second hand fur & new fur?

And why is rabbit fur any more acceptable than cats? Fur is fur.

I don't like fake either.

Why would anyone want to look like they approve of walking round wrapped in a dead animal by walking round in a fake dead animal?

[Loz]

PR - that petition is full of confused and non-connected information. I come from a small Aussie farming town, so I know a bit about this.

Mulsing has nothing to do with Ugg boots. It's a common procedure on sheep farmed for both wool and meat. It is to stop wool growing around the anus, so that all the sheep poo does not cling to the wool and attract fly eggs, which hatch into maggots which start eating the sheep. It isn't the most pleasant of procedures, but fly-blown sheep die horribly - basically eaten alive by maggots.

And the link to Ugg boots in that petition is tenuous to say the least, especially as most Ugg boots are made in China. Live sheep exports are done for meat - it's a much more expensive way of transporting animals, but the Middle East like to do their halal meat themselves. So the skins are still a meat by-product.

So stopping the manufacture of UGG boots would not change the situation one bit, Middle East live sheep exports would continue. It's a bit like Jimmy Choo shoes being made, hoping that the beef trade would suddenly stop.

Looks like standard PETA disinformation tactics to me.

[maxxi]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I do

> wear leather shoes. My only - albeit confused -

> consolation to myself is that leather is a

> byproduct of the meat industry, the animals are

> killed for meat and the skins taken off

> afterwards.

Loving the logic. I am now an ethical carnivore - I eat saddle of sable, ermine cassoulet and mink chops. I'm untouchable.

[PeckhamRose]

Never said I was perfect, but I do try and be informed, and thanks for the info re sheep farming methods but to do this mulsing thing on a live conscience sheep (I've seen the photos and a video) is rather cruel isn't it? And the videos say they are not just for Ugg by the way.

[Loz]

> d the videos say they are not just for Ugg by the way.

So why the focus on Ugg, then? You yourself did it = "Sheep torture for UGG boots". I just don't get it.

Many things done in farming can be seen as cruel - tailing, wethering - but they are done for a reason. Believe me, I've known many farmers and exactly zero of them would pay for an expert to come and do mulsing if they didn't think it was necessary.

I've just read that petition again, and in some places it is just wrong. Do they not bother to do ANY research before concocting these things?

- "Mulesing is a crude attempt to create smoother skin that won?t collect moisture" - wrong, it's to stop wool growing around the bum and collecting sheep poo.

- "Most of the world's wool comes from Australia." - wrong, just looked it up and it's only 25%.

- "...the wrinkles collect urine and moisture. Attracted to the moisture, flies lay eggs in the folds of skin," - sigh, not even close to reality and makes the connection to mulsing even more silly.

- "This unnatural overload of wool causes many sheep to collapse and even die of heat exhaustion during hot months" - they've farmed merinos for over 100 years in Australia. If they collapsed and died every summer do you really think that would be cost-effective?

I'm not criticising your concern for animals - far from it. But there are worthier (and more sensible) battles to be fought out there. Don't just rely on these shock-tactic videos for your information, have a look at some other, more balanced information sources.

It's these sort of dodgy tactics that give Animal Rights campaigners such a bad name.