The end of the Mancheter United Glory Days

[Mick Mac]

Where you are starting from is the key difference RD.

Liverpool - desperate to try anything after 20 years without winning. Choose a manager on the up. Still haven't won anything but people consider that "doing very well" because of the starting point being low.

Man United - a winning formula, quality manager with a winning mentality swopped for a relative novice. Stupid move.

[Parkdrive]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Where you are starting from is the key difference

> RD.

>

> Liverpool - desperate to try anything after 20

> years without winning. Choose a manager on the up.

> Still haven't won anything but people consider

> that "doing very well" because of the starting

> point being low.

>

> Man United - a winning formula, quality manager

> with a winning mentality swopped for a relative

> novice. Stupid move.

A relative novice chosen by SAF lest we forget

[red devil]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Where you are starting from is the key difference

> RD.

>

> Liverpool - desperate to try anything after 20

> years without winning. Choose a manager on the up.

> Still haven't won anything but people consider

> that "doing very well" because of the starting

> point being low.

Well it didn't stop you from putting a bet on them to win the League, or do you like throwing your money away? :)

> Man United - a winning formula, quality manager

> with a winning mentality swopped for a relative

> novice. Stupid move.

Who isn't a 'relative novice' compared to Fergie? It was always going to be a downward trajectory of some sort whoever was appointed...

[Millhaven]

Alex Ferguson should have left when United were still in their pomp and given his successor something to work with. Instead he waited around to the bitter end. Now fair play to going out with a Championship winning side, but it was/is a mediocre one. As Dixon said last night and anyone with one working eye could see, United won last season's Premiership due to the incompetence of City/Arsenal/Chelsea all of whom were worse than mediocre.

[red devil]

It's not as simple as that though MH, there were lots of factors at play last season, just as there are this season. Your team Chelsea were poor in the league last season, but that could be put down to managerial issues and/or distraction by the Europa League, which you won, not bad for 'worse than mediocre'...

[Millhaven]

Chelsea won what is the European version of the league cup and with a manager 90% of the supporters couldn't stand. Winning that cup only made up for having to put up with Rafa Benitez. It didn't make up for an appalling league performance. Well not for me anyway.

Agree, plenty of factors to also consider but I believe the umder-performance of those listed were pretty fundamental in the outcome of last season. Plus RvP was on fire. :)

[Mick Mac]

red devil Wrote:

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> Who isn't a 'relative novice' compared to Fergie?

> It was always going to be a downward trajectory of

> some sort whoever was appointed...

My reference to relative novice also applies when comparing Moyes now to Ferguson when appointed, Ferguson was already a winner of a European trophy.

Moyes was a huge gamble by a club/PLC that should be taking only calculated risks.

Liverpool - 66/1 is value.

[Millhaven]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-

>

> Liverpool - 66/1 is value.

How are the odds still that long? Liverpool are 4th in the league and only 4 points off top. Should be half those odds at least. If I didn't think Liverpool were so ojectionable I would bite the hand off the bookie offering 66/1.

[Mick Mac]

That was betfair at start of season, not now, 8/1 now.

Actually checking back it was 33/1 not 66/1 - soz

[Millhaven]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> That was betfair at start of season, not now, 8/1

> now.

>

> Actually checking back it was 33/1 not 66/1 - soz

ah..thats more like it. :)

[grabot]

Contrasting Moyes and Rogers. And at this point I am sure I'll offend a large number of supporters. Rogers, prior to managing Liverpool managed a side that many considered to be playing attractive football. Everton under Moyes, on the other hand were considered by many to be a negative team. That's fine for a club on a relative shoe string. But, Man Utd. fans expect correctly positive tactics. Rogers prepared for the Liverpool role, in fact he presented a 180 page dossier of his plans for the club, unlike Moyes who was apparently a shoe in. My father told me once that you can learn a lot about management in general from football management; it is management in the raw! In my experience when someone is brought in through backdoor they often disappoint, objectivity goes out of the window. I wouldn't keep Moyes beyond the summer, after the whole Fellaini, Baines debacle I don't think he's the right person to rebuild the team.

[????]

BFS is the man for Man U,,,,,go on take him

[Mick Mac]

Interesting post grabot.

[grabot]

Yes, I think that unconscious bias played a big part in the Moyes selection: confirmation bias, affinity bias. It's incredible how powerful a force it is and the extent to which it can override rational judgement. Who should have replaced Ferguson? I don't know, but I don't think that trying to create a new Ferguson was ever going to be the answer. Perhaps Mike Phelan could have stepped up in the interim and soaked up a bit of the post Ferguson angst to prepare everyone for a different operating model. Ferguson was something of a black swan in the modern game, a long serving manager of a successful European club, most manage 5 years max [Wenger is the main exception that comes immediately to mind]. So, the probability of recreating that formula was always going to be small.

[Mick Mac]

Today, Aberdeen won their second trophy of the post Alex Ferguson era.

[Otta]

And Ferguson is about the only common ground between those clubs..

[malumbu]

Who cares

[Mick Mac]

Manchester United are to be stripped of all 13 Premier League titles won since 1992 after it was found they were won by Sir Alex Ferguson, not the club, as previously presumed.

The Red Devils had laid claim to a spectacular run of success from the early 1990s, which helped them overhaul Liverpool's record of 18 league titles, but it has now come to light that it was their former manager who was responsible for the trophy haul.

"Our suspicions were aroused when we received a tip off that United wouldn't have won the 2013 title without Ferguson in charge," said Premier League spokesperson, Anne Field.

"We looked back at Premier League title races in 1997, 2003 and 2011, and found that Manchester United had somehow finished first against the odds in each of those years, but it wasn't until recent evidence came to light that we realised just how influential he was.

"It had previously been assumed that Manchester United had some kind of winning 'DNA' that was responsible for their run of titles.

"However, this theory has been disproved by something scientists have labelled 'The Moyes Effect', which describes how success ? or rather, a lack of it ? can be attributed to whoever is?Manchester United manager.

Field contrasted The Moyes Effect with Liverpool's dominant era, in which the club won league titles under a succession of managers, including Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan and Kenny Dalglish.

"Liverpool's run of titles?was sustained through several managerial changes, which was known as 'The Boot Room Effect'," said Field.

"It's in the Liverpool DNA.?I mean, how else do you explain a team containing Djimi Traore coming back from 3-0 down to win a Champions League final?"

Stripping United of the 13 titles won by Ferguson puts the Red Devils level with Aston Villa and behind Everton in the roll of honour, causing shock among people who had hadn't realised football existed before 1992.

[Otta]

Chortle :-)

[Laddy Muck]

Moyzie's after the big one >:D

[Jah Lush]

Fat chance.

[maxxi]

Probably right - but with the two teams who were crowing loudest in the first couple of months of this season both out of the CL - it'd be fun to see.

[StraferJack]

"with the two teams who were crowing loudest in the first couple of months of this season both out of the CL"

Arsenal were crowing loudly?

[Parkdrive]

Laddy Muck Wrote:

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> Moyzie's after the big one >:D<

Funny how you've suddenly come out of the woodwork, you've been in hiding since August.

[Bluerevolution]