Jump to content

Recommended Posts

James - do HA really have the project team capacity since a) they havent started building the new free primary school (although they have now got planning permission) and b) they havent finished rebuilding the other primary school in the Federation (not sure what stage this is at)?

Hi James,


All I am saying is that IF the Charter bid is serious then it is wise to feed into it so that SHOULD it win, the outcome is the one that the community wants - eg with respect to the admissions criteria.


The final decision sits with DofE so you can't say at this stage which bid will win or not.

Just wondering, does anyone know when construction would have to begin by in order for children to start in Sept 2016? Is there a point beyond which a school opening would have to pushed back to Sept 2017? Who actually owns the site at the moment?


Parents will need to fill out applications in a little over a years time - it all seems like a really tight timescale given the site is still wasteland... Is is realistic? (I really hope it is!)

Hi njc97,

Yes, Haberdashers' Aske's project team would be free and have sufficient capacity when required for the new ED school.


Hi Splendid,

I'm sure both free school applications will be made in the November round. They would be decided Jan/Feb. Then into planning permissions etc and property/land contracts. Building works would need to start around September 2015 to open September 2016. So the key event if application, decision and site.

I think with applications for new schools not yet built you apply directly to the school (details will be made public I am sure on how to do this) and also fill in your 6 choices to Southwark/Lewisham etc, so in effect you may have 2 excellent schools to choose from.
I'm part of the steering group - from our discussion it seems very do-able to have a school ready in time for 2016, given that of course it would only be year 7 starting. In terms of support for those children starting at a very new school I have been part of discussions and I'm reassured and more than confident that support from an established federation would be to hand continually.

But other than making a personal choice which is absolutely none of your business and nothing to do with you, what exactly do you think that James Barber has done wrong?


Thanks largely to him there is going to be a new secondary school in an area that desperately needs it. What a bastard huh?

njc97 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James - do HA really have the project team

> capacity since a) they havent started building the

> new free primary school (although they have now

> got planning permission) and b) they havent

> finished rebuilding the other primary school in

> the Federation (not sure what stage this is at)?


As a parent whose children attend HA primary at present I would have serious doubts about their ability to open a school in promised times. One primary burnt down Easter 2010 and there is still have no clear idea when this is to be reopened (currently rumoured to be around Easter 2015). The free school yet to be built despite assurances this was to be completed by Sept 2014. The federation is so large and expansive parents concerns are entirely lost in the machine.

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi clux,

> With a new secondary school on the Dulwich

> Hospital site you should be fine if you live

> within a 2 mile radius Setpmebr 2016.

> If you want to email directly happy to work

> through the likely scenarios with you.


That's a reassuring message but not if the admissions were to be by lottery. I appreciate the arguments in favour of lottery but favour the relative certainty of admissions by distance only.

Whatever happens, and whichever bid is approved, and either would be a great addition to the local range of options, it's pretty clear that we wouldn't be at this stage without local councilor support in galvanising and organising support.


So - thank you James and the steering group for getting this going (even if there's been a bit of piggy backing on a good idea).

The issue I have with this steering group is around transparency, accountability and due democratic process.


1. Just who are this steering group? What are their backgrounds and what makes them best placed to dictate which is the best school provider?

2. Just how representative is this group? From the picture on James Barber's website I would suggest not very. All white, all middle aged and looking as if they enjoy a lovely glass of sherry on a Sunday afternoon. Their socio economic background and ethnic background would be at odds from the diverse community this new school would serve.

3. Why should the community follow such an unrepresentative group's advice? They would not even access this new state school whoever runs it. Mr Barber (and no doubt others in his steering group) have already chosen private education. This comes at a considerable cost.


It would be my view that this is an out of touch, unrepresentative group who do not represent the community views.

"3. Why should the community follow such an unrepresentative group's advice?"



The community doesn't need to follow anyone's advise. The Department of Education will make a decision and the community will get a new school based on that decision.



Believe it or not, I'd probably be on the same side as you in a debate about state education and private education. But this is not the place for it, and you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder and a problem with James Barber, which is basically making your posts just come across as sounding malicious.

nicmc Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> njc97 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > James - do HA really have the project team

> > capacity since a) they havent started building

> the

> > new free primary school (although they have now

> > got planning permission) and b) they havent

> > finished rebuilding the other primary school in

> > the Federation (not sure what stage this is

> at)?

>

> As a parent whose children attend HA primary at

> present I would have serious doubts about their

> ability to open a school in promised times. One

> primary burnt down Easter 2010 and there is still

> have no clear idea when this is to be reopened

> (currently rumoured to be around Easter 2015). The

> free school yet to be built despite assurances

> this was to be completed by Sept 2014. The

> federation is so large and expansive parents

> concerns are entirely lost in the machine.


Thank you for pointing this out, I'm surprised no-one else has or maybe I shouldn't be.

Speaking for myself I have children in year 1 and 3, so my own children are the reason I'm on the steering group. Others will no doubt comment too, but I am almost 100% sure that each and every person on the group also has children they hope will go to that school, excepting James, who is representing his constituents who have those children of that age.(regardless of politics, he's been elected, that's his job). For what it's worth I'm not a member of a political party.


If you are talking demographics I can hold my hand up to being white and (as of a few weeks back, gulp) over 40. Steering group people are whoever came forward first - I'm not sure what else we could have done in that regard.... really I don't - and that's a whole issue in itself - perhaps a wider one. You may have noticed that we've had a lot of public and private discussion about ensuring the entry system is as fair as possible and that we find a way to ensure that all socio economic groups get a fair chance to be part of a great school. I for one dearly want my children to be able to go to a great state school accurately reflecting the true make up of the local area. We are lucky enough to have that as our primary school currently - that's all I want from secondary education.

I think it's 'dirty, cheap, politics by the 'man' and the 'party to suggest that 93% of ED residents (if we go by the national statistics of only 7% going private)who can't afford private education, unlike James Barber and a huge proportion of ED people who would love to send their kids to The Charter but don't live in the catchment, as does Mr. Barber should be even leading this ?untransparent? steering group!!

You got to ask yourself! Why so consistently against The Charter; statistically the best state school in ED and on it's way up and why so pro HA, statistically a school, sadly, in decline. Transparency please!

Do you think when it opens James Barber will be sending his kids to HA...ha,ha?!?

Could anyone - James ? - update us on the situation regarding the acquistion of the site for proposed new school .


Is it owned by a health Authority ( or some such body ) ? Are they in agreement about selling some of it for a school ? Has a price been agreed ? Presumably the funding for the purchase will only be available once a sponsor is decided on ?


How does the Dfe work out how much capital is available for land purchase ? Or will the land be leased ?

On the question of diversity. I would have thought that the location of the proposed site of the new school and an admissions policy based on distance would result in a diverse student intake.

As the existing Charter school is so close to the proposed site it would be interesting (if it is available) to look at the data for The Charter School. I would think that the data would show a great deal of diversity in terms of their student population and one that accurately reflects the local community

There is no transparency in this steering group. It's politically motivated, Representing a very narrow section of our community.


James Barber, who choose expensive private education, has no place trying to lead the campaign for a state school within the heart of our community.


Out of touch, unrepresentative and elitist. Stick to your public school Mr Barber, who have no place leading the campaign for our local community school

Stateeducation Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James Barber, who choose expensive private

> education, has no place trying to lead the

> campaign for a state school within the heart of

> our community.

>

> Out of touch, unrepresentative and elitist. Stick

> to your public school Mr Barber, who have no place

> leading the campaign for our local community

> school



No wonder he's so against Charter (quite clear from the first couple of pages on this thread), he lives in the catchment unlike many who crave a Charter place, yet sends his children to a private school. It would be embarrassing to promote a school then turn their back on it for self interest.


HA supposedly ticked all the boxes, how thorough was the process? Not very by the look of it, if they can't deliver on time projects they are currently involved in what chance is there of having a new school in ED on time. Was this question even asked?


A cheap attempt at electioneering.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • The is very low water pressure in the middle of Friern Road this morning.
    • I think mostly those are related to the same "issues". In my experience, it's difficult using the pin when reporting problems, especially if you're on a mobile... There's two obvious leaks in that stretch and has been for sometime one of them apparently being sewer flooding 😱  
    • BBC Homepage Skip to content Accessibility Help EFor you Notifications More menu Search BBC                     BBC News Menu   UK England N. Ireland Scotland Alba Wales Cymru Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey Local News Vets under corporate pressure to increase revenue, BBC told   Image source,Getty Images ByRichard Bilton, BBC Panorama and Ben Milne, BBC News Published 2 hours ago Vets have told BBC Panorama they feel under increasing pressure to make money for the big companies that employ them - and worry about the costly financial impact on pet owners. Prices charged by UK vets rose by 63% between 2016 and 2023, external, and the government's competition regulator has questioned whether the pet-care market - as it stands - is giving customers value for money. One anonymous vet, who works for the UK's largest vet care provider, IVC Evidensia, said that the company has introduced a new monitoring system that could encourage vets to offer pet owners costly tests and treatment options. A spokesperson for IVC told Panorama: "The group's vets and vet nurses never prioritise revenue or transaction value over and above the welfare of the animal in their care." More than half of all UK households are thought to own a pet, external. Over the past few months, hundreds of pet owners have contacted BBC Your Voice with concerns about vet bills. One person said they had paid £5,600 for 18 hours of vet-care for their pet: "I would have paid anything to save him but felt afterwards we had been taken advantage of." Another described how their dog had undergone numerous blood tests and scans: "At the end of the treatment we were none the wiser about her illness and we were presented with a bill of £13,000."   Image caption, UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024, according to the CMA Mounting concerns over whether pet owners are receiving a fair deal prompted a formal investigation by government watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). In a provisional report, external at the end of last year, it identified several issues: Whether vet companies are being transparent about the ownership of individual practices and whether pet owners have enough information about pricing The concentration of vet practices and clinics in the hands of six companies - these now control 60% of the UK's pet-care market Whether this concentration has led to less market competition and allowed some vet care companies to make excess profits 'Hitting targets' A vet, who leads one of IVC's surgeries (and who does not want to be identified because they fear they could lose their job), has shared a new internal document with Panorama. The document uses a colour code to compare the company's UK-wide tests and treatment options and states that it is intended to help staff improve clinical care. It lists key performance indicators in categories that include average sales per patient, X-rays, ultrasound and lab tests. The vet is worried about the new policy: "We will have meetings every month, where one of the area teams will ask you how many blood tests, X-rays and ultrasounds you're doing." If a category is marked in green on the chart, the clinic would be judged to be among the company's top 25% of achievers in the UK. A red mark, on the other hand, would mean the clinic was in the bottom 25%. If this happens, the vet says, it might be asked to come up with a plan of action. The vet says this would create pressure to "upsell" services. Panorama: Why are vet bills so high? Are people being priced out of pet ownership by soaring bills? Watch on BBC iPlayer now or BBC One at 20:00 on Monday 12 January (22:40 in Northern Ireland) Watch on iPlayer For instance, the vet says, under the new model, IVC would prefer any animal with suspected osteoarthritis to potentially be X-rayed. With sedation, that could add £700 to a bill. While X-rays are sometimes necessary, the vet says, the signs of osteoarthritis - the thickening of joints, for instance - could be obvious to an experienced vet, who might prefer to prescribe a less expensive anti-inflammatory treatment. "Vets shouldn't have pressure to do an X-ray because it would play into whether they are getting green on the care framework for their clinic." IVC has told Panorama it is extremely proud of the work its clinical teams do and the data it collects is to "identify and close gaps in care for our patients". It says its vets have "clinical independence", and that prioritising revenue over care would be against the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons' (RCVS) code and IVC policy. Vets say they are under pressure to bring in more money per pet   Published 15 April 2025 Vets should be made to publish prices, watchdog says   Published 15 October 2025 The vet says a drive to increase revenue is undermining his profession. Panorama spoke to more than 30 vets in total who are currently working, or have worked, for some of the large veterinary groups. One recalls being told that not enough blood tests were being taken: "We were pushed to do more. I hated opening emails." Another says that when their small practice was sold to a large company, "it was crazy... It was all about hitting targets". Not all the big companies set targets or monitor staff in this way. The high cost of treatment UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024 - equal to just over £365 per pet-owning household, according to the CMA. However, most pet owners in the UK do not have insurance, and bills can leave less-well-off families feeling helpless when treatment is needed. Many vets used not to display prices and pet owners often had no clear idea of what treatment would cost, but in the past two years that has improved, according to the CMA. Rob Jones has told Panorama that when his family dog, Betty, fell ill during the autumn of 2024 they took her to an emergency treatment centre, Vets Now, and she underwent an operation that cost almost £5,000. Twelve days later, Betty was still unwell, and Rob says he was advised that she could have a serious infection. He was told a diagnosis - and another operation - would cost between £5,000-£8,000.   Image caption, Betty's owners were told an operation on her would cost £12,000 However, on the morning of the operation, Rob was told this price had risen to £12,000. When he complained, he was quoted a new figure - £10,000. "That was the absolute point where I lost faith in them," he says. "It was like, I don't believe that you've got our interests or Betty's interests at heart." The family decided to put Betty to sleep. Rob did not know at the time that both his local vet, and the emergency centre, branded Vets Now, where Betty was treated, were both owned by the same company - IVC. He was happy with the treatment but complained about the sudden price increase and later received an apology from Vets Now. It offered him £3,755.59 as a "goodwill gesture".   Image caption, Rob Jones says he lost faith in the vets treating his pet dog Betty Vets Now told us its staff care passionately for the animals they treat: "In complex cases, prices can vary depending on what the vet discovers during a consultation, during the treatment, and depending on how the patient responds. "We have reviewed our processes and implemented a number of changes to ensure that conversations about pricing are as clear as possible." Value for money? Independent vet practices have been a popular acquisition for corporate investors in recent years, according to Dr David Reader from the University of Glasgow. He has made a detailed study of the industry. Pet care has been seen as attractive, he says, because of the opportunities "to find efficiencies, to consolidate, set up regional hubs, but also to maximise profits". Six large veterinary groups (sometimes referred to as LVGs) now control 60% of the UK pet care market - up from 10% a decade ago, according to the CMA, external. They are: Linnaeus, which owns 180 practices Medivet, which has 363 Vet Partners with 375 practices CVS Group, which has 387 practices Pets at Home, which has 445 practices under the name Vets for Pets IVC Evidensia, which has 900 practices When the CMA announced its provisional findings last autumn, it said there was not enough competition or informed choice in the market. It estimated the combined cost of this to UK pet owners amounted to £900m between 2020-2024. Corporate vets dispute the £900m figure. They say their prices are competitive and made freely available, and reflect their huge investment in the industry, not to mention rising costs, particularly of drugs. The corporate vets also say customers value their services highly and that they comply with the RCVS guidelines.   Image caption, A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with the service they receive from vets A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with their vets - both corporate and independent - when it comes to quality of service. But, with the exception of Pets at Home, customer satisfaction on cost is much lower for the big companies. "I think that large veterinary corporations, particularly where they're owned by private equity companies, are more concerned about profits than professionals who own veterinary businesses," says Suzy Hudson-Cooke from the British Veterinary Union, which is part of Unite. Proposals for change The CMA's final report on the vet industry is expected by the spring but no date has been set for publication. In its provisional report, it proposed improved transparency on pricing and vet ownership. Companies would have to reveal if vet practices were part of a chain, and whether they had business connections with hospitals, out-of-hours surgeries, online pharmacies and even crematoria. IVC, CVS and Vet Partners all have connected businesses and would have to be more transparent about their services in the future. Pets at Home does not buy practices - it works in partnership with individual vets, as does Medivet. These companies have consistently made clear in their branding who owns their practices. The big companies say they support moves to make the industry more transparent so long as they don't put too high a burden on vets. David Reader says the CMA proposals could have gone further. "There's good reason to think that once this investigation is concluded, some of the larger veterinary groups will continue with their acquisition strategies." The CMA says its proposals would "improve competition by helping pet owners choose the right vet, the right treatment, and the right way to buy medicine - without confusion or unnecessary cost". For Rob Jones, however, it is probably too late. "I honestly wouldn't get another pet," he says. "I think it's so expensive now and the risk financially is so great.             Food Terms of Use About the BBC Privacy Policy Cookies Accessibility Help Parental Guidance Contact the BBC Make an editorial complaint BBC emails for you Copyright © 2026 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read about our approach to external linking.
    • What does the area with the blue dotted lines and the crossed out water drop mean? No water in this area? So many leaks in the area.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...