LBC - European Debate : Clegg vs Farage

[Louisa]

Anyone else listening to this? It's lots of hot air and typically polarised so far. But fair play, at least these two are talking about it, where is our Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition? What do you think to it so far? What's your opinion on the whole issue?

Louisa.

[Loz]

I only heard the last 10 mins or so. Cleggy sounded too earnest (and a bit boring), but Farage sounded a tadge unhinged.

Personally, I think the UK would be mad to come out of the EU. There's a lot wrong about the EU, but the advantages still far outweigh the disadvantages.

[PokerTime]

I think Farage is bonkers personally, but I do love the mahem he's causing amongst the ranks of the main parties. I agree Loz. It would be completely self defeating to leave the EU.

[numbers]

My opinion is that neither of them are worth listening to. As for the PM and Leader of the Opposition. Just as bad if not worse.

I'm not in the pro-Euro camp either*

Yours disillusioned with everything.

*My isn't the forum pretty dull at the moment.

[El Pibe]

A classic case of careful what you wish for.

Farage appeals to people at a gut level.

It's all based on a lie of course, it's a dogma thing, Europe simply isn't what he says it is.

I'll be sad when Scotland leaves the UK, we'll both be less than the sum, but 'we don't vote for tories', is so much more powerful than 'the status quo is ok', especially when the no vote is resorting to scare tactics.

For europe the benfits seem even more invisible even though they're manifest in most people's lives a great deal.

It's bascailly objectivity versus subjectivity, and I've a feeling the latter will in out if it ever comes to the ballot box. It'll be a massive mistake.

Farage is a nationalist and a xenophone, he's also very right wing in terms of his 'libertarianism' and he'll screw the little man every time.

I love the fact that he had a go at Clegg for being one of the political classes that never had a real job, a chap who went to dulwich college and spent a little time being a commodities trader, yeah down with the kids there mr!!!

[Dopamine1979]

I had a xenophone once.

It would never connect my calls to anyone with a foreign sounding name.

[*Bob*]

Caught Clegg on LBC again this morning (where else? - his spiritual home).

It was the first time I think I've heard him try to wriggle away from his classic straight-talkin' tabloid 'editorial' style - when quizzed in this instance for a straight (boom! boom!) answer on gay marriage.

Which goes to prove two things:

1. He's genuinely believes he's passed the point where he can just say whatever he wants and get the usual vote - and now has to seriously consider who else he might blag some from.

2. Despite his bloke in pub act, he'll wriggle away for a cross in the box - just like the rest of them.

[numbers]

"I'll be sad when Scotland leaves the UK, we'll both be less than the sum, but 'we don't vote for tories', is so much more powerful than 'the status quo is ok', especially when the no vote is resorting to scare tactics.

For europe the benfits seem even more invisible even though they're manifest in most people's lives a great deal."

jesus you think that's already decided, do you El Pibe?

(this isn't directed at you) I think it is very simplistic to accuse those of not being pro-Europe as xenophobic.

edited to add ""

[PokerTime]

I think you are both right El Pibe and Bob. And of course it's only going to get worse in the run up to the general election, as all parties pull the wool over voters eyes with incorrect stats, analysis and misinformation.

For example this....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html

How are voters exspected to make sense of complex fiscal measurements to know the truth. It's far easier if the Tories continue as they are doing by claiming Labour ruined the economy and Labour bounce back with 'oh no we didn't'. Politics has been reduced to that level of pantomime debate.

[????]

As numbers said, to accuse anyone of being not enamoured with the EU as Xenphobic is ironically an example of daily mail like steretyping in its own right - has always amazed me that two of the more intelligent posters on this forum (ep and that old fella Hugenot) have consistently fallen back on this stereotype...

isn't that old pint swilling fraud Nigel 'the Xeneophobe' Farage married to a german himself?

[StraferJack]

To not be pro eu doesn't make anyone a xenophobe

But you would be delerious to suggest xenophophes don't gravitate to the parties most anti.

The suggestion that ukip and it's supporters are merely anti eu is a stretch

[DaveR]

The evidence seems to suggest that most UKIP voters don't know much about the EU, and care even less. When asked what they liked most about Britain, the most common answer was 'the past'. Anti EU rants are (in electoral terms) just a convenient way to hark back to the halcyon days of supposed British greatness. The supreme irony is that they never existed, can't be brought back, and any effort to do so would probably harm the average UKIP voter more than anyone else.

[uncleglen]

The EU is riddled with extreme left wing politicians. They are as dangerous to our freedoms as extreme right wing politicians. All politicians are only interested in votes because then they can maintain power over the ordinary people in the street- power being the only other thing they are interested in. The fact that people of this mindset actually have so much power is very scary because their motives for doing anything are questionable. Increasingly in the public sector work place the creeping micro management, (e.g.target-setting and other practices that ignore the human factors present) emanating from politics is destroying any enjoyment that we had.

[Jeremy]

Farage and co seem to be gaining traction by essentially blaming immigration/immigrants for the country's problems. It's the 'pretty' face of nationalism and xenophobia as far as I'm concerned. Yes of course its possible to be anti EU and still be a perfectly decent person, but I don't believe that applies to this lot.

[StraferJack]

Glen those practices don't come from politics (mostly)

Those measures are common place in predicate companies and are seen as "best practice"

So public companies are employing them too. Because public companies are "run" by givernment it might seem to some it's coming from politics but that's just the garb of the employer

[El Pibe]

to be absolutely clear, i don't think people who aren't pro-urope are xenophobic, and i apologise unreservedly if people think that was my subtext.

I was saying that nigel farage is xenophobic and he appeals to people on a level that sounds attractive and plausible, but in reality doesn't add up.

[El Pibe]

uncleglen i can precis your post, herewigo:

"the bees are dying because london house prices are rising. ban houses!!!!!"

[uncleglen]

Only a politician would come out with something like that ep