Rolf Noooooooooooooo!

[El Pibe]

it was nothing to do with the debate, just an aside regards first mates pondering that if westminster was found to be a hotbed of sexual abuse in the past, might that have some connection to the fact that almost all of them came through the public school system.

It didn't seem an entirely unreasonable hypothesis.

You then had a go at him for homophobia and equating homosexuality with paedohpilia, neither of which did he do, you just misunderstood the word fag.

At no time did you say 'oh yeah whoops my bad'.

I just thought you'd given the chap an unwarranted bashing.

[the-e-dealer]

Unwarranted bashing - Sounds very Tom Brown!

[Otta]

Oh DJ, I remember you doing EXACTLY this when (if I remember rightly) you took offence at something someone from a pub (possibly the then Wishing Well) said, and despite EVERYONE telling you you'd got it wrong you just absolutely refused to accept it or back down an inch.

[Otta]

My mistake, it was the "Your views on Foie Gras" thread.

Christ, that thread was the thread that just kept giving!

[Jeremy]

PT - you responded to a reference of fagging in public school, with an accusion of homophobic language.

I think even you can admit that you got the wrong end of the stick there...

[Jah Lush]

I wouldn't bank on it, Jeremy.

[DaveR]

Regardless of the 'fag' issue, any assumption that Westminster paedophiles = public schoolboys is pretty tenuous when the MP against whom there currently appears to be the most evidence is Cyril Smith. I took it as a lazy class-based stereotype, if anything.

[Louisa]

What's wrong with class based stereotypes? If the cap fits.

Louisa.

[DaveR]

Is that a cloth cap or some namby-pamby middle class incomer baseball cap?

[steveo]

This takes the biscuit: I've just read that the Lord Chancellor Sir Michael Havers persuaded Geoffrey Dickens not to name the MPs in the house.

Baroness Butler-Sloss has just been appointed to lead the sex abuse inquiry. Who was her brother? The late Sir Michael Havers.

Excuse me for being a bit slow to take the idea of a vast cover up seriously

[Louisa]

DaveR not sure if describe the wearing of a baseball cap in the British sense as unique to any class demographic, it's more complex than that, it has affiliations with all sorts of groups as a form of head ware. However, I take your point. I'd probably go for some sort of arty cloth cap with working class origins but now associated with a more affluent group.

Louisa.

[PokerTime]

Fair enough Jeremy and El Pibe. I will conceed that. I was thrown by the use of homoerotic, which still in my opinion has nothing to do with school bullying, and nothing to do with peadophilia. And in the past, peadophilia has been used to suggest homosexuality is akin to sexual criminality/ deviency (a ploy of homophobic lobbyists) - so that's where my accusation of homophobia stemmed from. A misjudged reaction I will though admit.

[Jeremy]

I think we can all agree that homosexuality is not related to peadophilia.

I don't see why bullying amongst boys with an element of sexual degradation can't be described as "homoerotic"... but I can agree to disagree on that one.

[Louisa]

In a thread of such sensitivity, it seems a shame that once again the EDF swings wildly off-topic, with yet another self-indulgent game of cat and mouse tactics regarding misunderstanding of use of words. Just an observation.

Louisa.

[El Pibe]

Daver, indeed as far as anyone knows it's just Cyril but there have been hints recently that it goes a bit deeper and there were others who either knew or helped facilitate.

But rumours are often baseless so we'll just have to wait for any more detail.

For the record I doubt public school would have any greater correlation to sexual abuse except insofar as grooming people for positions of power means you'll end up with more people in positions of power, with concomitant opportunities for its abuse in one form or another.

We might as well say that public school causes expense fiddling :-)

[El Pibe]

A misunderstanding is cleared up. Hardly the worst thing that's happened on the EDF.

[LadyDeliah]

Which school did Leon Brittan go to? Appears he was rampant at the Elm House Guest House (not surprising he lost the files).

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Fair Do's to you PT.

PokerTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Fair enough Jeremy and El Pibe. I will conceed

> that. I was thrown by the use of homoerotic, which

> still in my opinion has nothing to do with school

> bullying, and nothing to do with peadophilia. And

> in the past, peadophilia has been used to suggest

> homosexuality is akin to sexual criminality/

> deviency (a ploy of homophobic lobbyists) - so

> that's where my accusation of homophobia stemmed

> from. A misjudged reaction I will though admit.

[Otta]

Indeed.

[JohnL]

Looks like there's possibly loads - but how many before we look for something sick in society as a whole back then.

[first mate]

Rather late to reply. Comment was not meant to be frivolous but, yes, perhaps a little lazy/throwaway. Of much greater importance are disturbing hints by the likes of Tebbit and Harman of what is to come.

[Jah Lush]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This takes the biscuit: I've just read that the

> Lord Chancellor Sir Michael Havers persuaded

> Geoffrey Dickens not to name the MPs in the

> house.

>

> Baroness Butler-Sloss has just been appointed to

> lead the sex abuse inquiry. Who was her brother?

> The late Sir Michael Havers.

>

> Excuse me for being a bit slow to take the idea of

> a vast cover up seriously.

Hmm... Yes it's reassuring to know that in response of the government's paedophile cover-up stories the government has decided to order a new and comprehensive cover up.

[Otta]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28225043

[adonirum]

Connections connections, there's always close intertwined connections at "the top".

The barristers' chambers headed by Michael Havers back in the late 70's/early 80's also had as a member the shadow attorney general at the time, John Morris Q.C. (Labour). So all political legal advice was pretty well "sewn up" back then.

It was also the chambers where Margaret Thatcher gained her grounding in the law, along with Angus Maude ( the then Paymaster General) one of her closest confidante, and where his son Francis Maude, now a (semi) prominent politician, also practised from.

[randombloke]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In a thread of such sensitivity, it seems a shame

> that once again the EDF swings wildly off-topic,

> with yet another self-indulgent game of cat and

> mouse tactics regarding misunderstanding of use of

> words. Just an observation.

>

> Louisa.

Well said!