East Dulwich Picturehouse

[Otta]

I don't think you are a prick by the way, but your previous post was a bit off IMO.

[BrandNewGuy]

I've tried hunting down who does pay LLW locally - or at least has signed up to it. It's not easy to find out, which gives the lie somewhat to the idea that companies would trumpet it from the rooftops. No Sainsburys, Tesco or Co-Op for starters, as far as I can see, so there's lots more boycotting to be done...

[Zebedee Tring]

Otta, I will not dignify your post with a reply.

[Jon Barrenechea]

Hi everyone

Sorry for the silence. Here's our statement on the situation at The Ritzy:

http://www.picturehouses.co.uk/Pay_At_The_Ritzy/

[Otta]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> Otta, I will not dignify your post with a reply.

Thank you for your reply.

[jjjjj]

I'm looking forward to the picture house opening.

Any new business can only be a good thing for the area, not only through employment directly with the business but also the potential of new visitors to the area and adding business to the area.

[Zebedee Tring]

Otta, that wasn't a reply, it was an acknowledgement (out of politeness). There's a big difference.

[Jeremy]

urehouse won't be the only chain in ED. Do the pub chains, supermarkets, GBK etc pay LWW? Don't understand why picturehouse are being singled out.

[Zebedee Tring]

That's precisely the point I have been trying to make, Jeremy, and all I have received is personal abuse on this thread from certain quarters. I believe that the word "prick" was directed at me - definitely well out of order, as Phil Mitchell and his mates might say.

[Otta]

Actually ZT, I said I don't think you're a prick, but I said you were acting like one because you started getting rude and a bit personal. But why let the truth ruin a good sob story huh?

I too agree that it's a bit harsh for the Picturehouse to be singled out, but I guess as their staff kicked up a fuss, their name is linked with the issue. But I suspect if we were talking about something less desirable than a cinema, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the issue.

[Zebedee Tring]

Otta, saying that someone is acting like a prick is for all intents and purposes the same as saying that they are a prick. Both statements are insulting and demeaning and not worthy of someone supposedly posting on a grown ups' MB as opposed to some website designed for sixth formers. So please don't try and wriggle out of that one by applying some spurious bit of semantics.

Again you're distorting what I was saying by claiming that I was dismissing the issue, when like Jeremy I indicated that I didn't understand why Picture House were being singled out for criticism.

This is the last time that I will respond to you on this issue, which as far as I am concerned is closed

[Robert Poste's Child]

jjjjj Wrote:

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> I'm looking forward to the picture house opening.

>

>

> Any new business can only be a good thing for the

> area, not only through employment directly with

> the business but also the potential of new

> visitors to the area and adding business to the

> area.

I heard that a cinema would give LL full high street status, meaning higher business rates which would be likely to force smaller local traders out. Anyone know more about this?

[northlondoner]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> So what do the moaners want? No cinema at all,

> which would be a very bad thing for ED? No doubt,

> they would then feel ethically pure, right on and

> smug. And presumably this new cinema which they

> would prefer not to have would generate employment

> - perhaps they could explain their views to the

> people who would potentially be employed there.

>

> And why are they picking on Picture House when so

> many other ED businesses don't pay LLD?

>

> The negativity and student union style posturing

> on this MB often dismays me. And I'm a left of

> centre person, so I can imagine how people on the

> right feel.

Characterising people concerned about a living wage as " moaners" makes you appear selfish and simple.

Characterising the putative absence of the cinema as a "very bad thing " makes you appear frivolous and infant-like.

[SteveUK1978]

Ah the EDF, where else can you insult people you don't even know in the middle of the night for simply expressing their opinion.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Come on people... Play nicely

[BrandNewGuy]

northlondoner Wrote:

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> > And why are they picking on Picture House when

> so

> > many other ED businesses don't pay LLD?

> >

> > The negativity and student union style

> posturing

> > on this MB often dismays me. And I'm a left of

> > centre person, so I can imagine how people on

> the

> > right feel.

>

> Characterising people concerned about a living

> wage as " moaners" makes you appear selfish and

> simple.

No, some of those professing to be 'concerned about a living wage' have concentrated their ire on Picturehouse, with no mention of those chains and independents locally who almost certainly do not pay the LLW. That's what looks like posturing rather than genuine concern.

[Zebedee Tring]

So not only am I a "prick" but I am "frivolous", "selfish", "simple" and "infant-like". These insults say more about the senders of the messages than they do about me.

Please do me the courtesy of readings all my posts on this thread and then apologise to me for distorting my views so seriously. Though I suspect that I will have to wait a long time for any apologies.

BNG's use of the word "posturing" to describe some of the offending posters is highly appropriate.

[Penguin68]

If you were to propose a boycot of all those retail and restaurant etc. establishments in Lordship Lane and surrounds who were not paying ALL their staff at least the London Living Wage, indeed if you placed a requirement on all such establishments to pay the LLW or close, then we would have an awfully quiet high street, I would guess.

It is certainly entirely legitimate to suggest that the Picture House is not quite so cosy an employer as it may appear (although its statement about its staff situation was not the most combatative I have read) - but to use that as a reason for it not to open, as appears to be the background to this suggestion, is unhelpful. Better to get employment and facilities into ED and then work on the employers to up their emolument game than to ride your high horse into a local desert of opportunity and facility, I would think.

[*Bob*]

Regardless of the ins and outs of LLW, Picturehouse - who through their groovy image, alt-programming and indie feel (comparable to the 'blockbuster' chains I mean) - actively court a clientele more likely to upset their eggs benedict about such a thing.

Makes sense for businesses to stay on the right side of their customers, especially if they happen to be motivated and liable to get arsey in these days of rampant social media.

(It's still fine to pay less than LLW to eg table waiting staff 'serving' eggs benedict, of course. Nothing to worry about there)

[Zebedee Tring]

*Bob*'s post is a sensible one in which he actually engages intelligently with the views of posters with whom he doesn't necessarily agree without resorting to vulgar abuse. In other words, he is behaving like an adult as opposed to a sixth former. Hooray!

[Otta]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> he is behaving like an adult as opposed to a sixth

> former. Hooray!

The irony.

[Zebedee Tring]

It's sixth formers who use words like "prick" to describe people with whom they disagree, not adults.

[SteveUK1978]

When you look at the list of those employers who have signed up to LLW, they are largely financial institutions (Goldman Sachs are there - good to know their employees aren't going poor) or public sector organisations. There are no retailers, restaurants or other leisure sector businesses.

I assume (sorry, I didn't read the whole guidance) that to sign up you as a participating employer you need to pay all your employees this wage which in turn is calculated to "provide their family with the essentials of life, including a cushion against unforeseen events". Just don't see how this is even relevant for many of the likely staff at a cinema who are going to be students, part-time, second jobbers etc.

It's a nonsense argument and the personal insults being thrown around to those who seemingly just want a new cinema opening in a largely unused building on our High Street are unacceptable.

[northlondoner]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

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> So not only am I a "prick" but I am "frivolous",

> "selfish", "simple" and "infant-like". These

> insults say more about the senders of the messages

> than they do about me.

>

> Please do me the courtesy of readings all my posts

> on this thread and then apologise to me for

> distorting my views so seriously. Though I suspect

> that I will have to wait a long time for any

> apologies.

>

> BNG's use of the word "posturing" to describe some

> of the offending posters is highly appropriate.

I'm completely agnostic as to the pros/cons of the Ritzy living wage dispute - but dismissing those concerned about it as "moaners " is insulting - and creates the impression I describe.

I sadly do not have the time to read through this entire thread and apologise unreservedly if I've misrepresented your views in any way. My response was entirely focused on that specific post .

[Zebedee Tring]

Northlondoner, I suggest that you read all my posts on this thread before you condemn me. I am a man of the left, but I don't slavishly follow the "right on" brigade if I think that they are posturing.

My wife, who is very much on the left was very critical of her NUJ branch in the 80s who, instead of fighting to protect their members' jobs which were very much on the line, instead spent all its time passing resolutions demanding that the troops be withdrawn from N. Ireland. This is the kind of posturing that I deplore, which is a little like some of the posturing on this thread.

But clearly you are a very busy person and probably won't be able to spare the time, which I regret.