Palestinian PR

[Otta]

I wrote

"it's to see if f you"

Er, just for clarity, that stray f was a typoo.

[PokerTime]

Hmm..well on the one hand there are illegal settlements, that the UN has been powerless to do anything about.

On the other there is Hamas, who do what they can to in turn provoke Isreal.

And then there is the Gaza Strip where Palestinians are subject to regular curfews, which can sometimes last days.

And there is also the issue of water.

Isreal absolutely abuse their power. They can do so because of nuclear muscle.

If Hamas were to dissolve, would the plight of ordinary Palestinians improve? Whatever is going on with the politics and conflict of the region, Isreal ARE oppressing the people of the Gaza Strip, and the World is letting them do it.

[El Pibe]

Bah, pointless debate.

[LadyDeliah]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Troof ????

>

> 'Western powers' should be prefaced by 'well

> meaning' before we enter into a bout of

> self-flagellation

I'd say greedy, ruthless and self-interested were more accurate descriptions of the Western powers' involvement in Isreal/Palestine and how can it be self-flagellation to point this out, unless you are one of the powerful involved?

[LadyDeliah]

Whoops, bit of a late cross post lol.

[Parkdrive]

PokerTime Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmm..well on the one hand there are illegal

> settlements, that the UN has been powerless to do

> anything about.

>

> On the other there is Hamas, who do what they can

> to in turn provoke Isreal.

>

> And then there is the Gaza Strip where

> Palestinians are subject to regular curfews, which

> can sometimes last days.

>

> And there is also the issue of water.

>

> Isreal absolutely abuse their power. They can do

> so because of nuclear muscle.

>

> If Hamas were to dissolve, would the plight of

> ordinary Palestinians improve? Whatever is going

> on with the politics and conflict of the region,

> Isreal ARE oppressing the people of the Gaza

> Strip, and the World is letting them do it.

The world is indeed standing by and doing nothing.

[steveo]

If Hamas was scared of nuclear muscle would they be lobbing rockets into Isreal (sic)?

Israel has stated that if they stopped doing that then the air strikes would stop.

What do you suggest the world does?

[northlondoner]

Surely Mark Regev is the best PR the Palestinians could ever hope for.

[Jeremy]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Israel has stated that if they stopped doing that

> then the air strikes would stop.

Sometimes these things need to be negotiated a bit more deftly than "if you stop we'll stop"

[Jah Lush]

ABC News - lying bastards.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/abc-news-tells-viewers-scenes-destruction-gaza-are-israel

[Parkdrive]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If Hamas was scared of nuclear muscle would they

> be lobbing rockets into Isreal (sic)?

> Israel has stated that if they stopped doing that

> then the air strikes would stop.

>

> What do you suggest the world does?

How about bringing Israel to task over the heavy handed tactics it uses against the Palestinians for starters, bulldozing their homes to make way for Jewish settlers, puts pressure on Israel to dismantle the West Bank barrier it put up restricting movement and access, and portions of which stand on Palestinian territory, just for a start?

Considering the centuries of oppression and hatred Jews have had faced you'd think they'd know what it feels like to be victims of such barbaric measures. Nothing learned from history eh?

[Jah Lush]

Excellent response PD.

Worth a read.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-true-gaza-backstory-that-the-israelis-arent-telling-this-week-9596120.html

[Parkdrive]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Excellent response PD.

>

> Worth a read.

>

> http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-true-gaza-

> backstory-that-the-israelis-arent-telling-this-wee

> k-9596120.html

Excellent read, shamefully not something widely circulated.

[Jah Lush]

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag237/jahlushhead/55bf96ef-fc0a-4080-8866-c1ab92fb01bb_zps17f87979.jpg

[steveo]

Bollocks. Stop the rockets.

[El Pibe]

Well of course there will be a cease fire soon, and there'll be few Israeli dead and the Palestinian body count will stretch into the hundreds as per the last 10 times this has happened.

And Israel still won't talk to Hamas, and everyone will still be stuck in a prison whilst their water and land are taken away slice by slice.

And there won't be any concessions of any sort because the Israeli state has opted for a permanant state of 'war' in return for the ever increasing settlements and the land grab.

To make a gun ownership comparison, it's like the school massascres in the US, occassional rockets are just something that needs to be put up with in order to keep the status quo.

So anything more constructive than 'stop the rockets'?

[vgrant]

so how long can this continute with an attrition ratio of 30:1 ?

We are gonna run of Palestinians soon.

[Parkdrive]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bollocks. Stop the rockets.

Ignorant, suggest you read your history. You've just embarrassed yourself.

[steveo]

Stop the rockets is a start. Hamas couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. They'd get my sympathy if they had a voice that wasn't one long scream of violence. How do they help their people if they don't face facts?

They won't eradicate Israel so get real. Talk.

Where are their friends apart from this forum?

[Parkdrive]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Stop the rockets is a start. Hamas couldn't

> organise a piss up in a brewery. They'd get my

> sympathy if they had a voice that wasn't one long

> scream of violence. How do they help their people

> if they don't face facts?

>

> They won't eradicate Israel so get real. Talk.

>

> Where are their friends apart from this forum?

Scream of violence also applies to Israel, yet again you've demonstrated your jaw dropping ignorance in respect of this issue. Sit down in a quiet room and read up on your middle east history, you may be less prone to embarrassing yourself as much in future if you can be bothered. Unbelievable

[steveo]

Funnily enough I don't feel even slightly embarrassed

How far back would you like me to read? Tell me when to stop

[El Pibe]

Oh yeah, we're friends of Hamas, idiotic thing to say.

Hamas rockets achieve nothing and i agree that they're utterly self-defeatring, they think it applies political pressure, but the Israeli population seem able to live with the status quo, even those that sympathise with the Palestinian cause.

The world doesn't give a shit, at least not enough to pressure the US to pressure Israel to make genuine movement towards compromise.

And of course Israeli demographics push it further and further away from any sort of settlement. The Israel of 25 years ago that wanted peace is now sidelined, the hawkish centre right absolutely dominates the middle-ground now and its only going to go further right.

So given that doing nothing achieves nothing and setting off fireworks achieve nothing, i can see why you'd do the latter rather than bow down and accept your fate, though if I lived there i'd certainly be asking them to stop as its the civilians who suffer as usual.

Of course Hamas will negotiate and would do a deal, they just want a better deal than the non-state lay-over-and-play-dead deal that Fatah signed up to; local power for Israels scraps from the table.

A starting point might be one where your nose isn't daily and brutally rubbed into the the indignity, powerlessness and destitution of your existence.

[vgrant]

Where are the rest of the reactionary sock puppets to back Steveo up when he needs them ? poor show

[Parkdrive]

steveo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Funnily enough I don't feel even slightly

> embarrassed

>

> How far back would you like me to read? Tell me

> when to stop

You should if you have any decency, you really should feel ashamed of yourself.

[Parkdrive]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh yeah, we're friends of Hamas, idiot.

>

> Hamas rockets achieve nothing and i agree that

> they're utterly self-defeatring, they think it

> applies political pressure, but the Israeli

> population seem able to live with the status quo,

> even those that sympathise with the Palestinian

> cause.

> The world doesn't give a shit, at least not enough

> to pressure the US to pressure Israel to make

> genuine movement towards compromise.

>

> And of course Israeli demographics push it further

> and further away from any sort of settlement. The

> Israel of 25 years ago that wanted peace is now

> sidelined, the hawkish centre right absolutely

> dominates the middle-ground now and its only going

> to go further right.

>

> So given that doing nothing achieves nothing and

> setting off fireworks achieve nothing, i can see

> why you'd do the latter rather than bow down and

> accept your fate, though if I lived there i'd

> certainly be asking them to stop as its the

> civilians who suffer as usual.

>

> Of course Hamas will negotiate and would do a

> deal, they just want a better deal than the

> non-state lay-over-and-play-dead deal that Fatah

> signed up to; local power for Israels scraps from

> the table.

>

> A starting point might be one where your nose

> isn't daily and brutally rubbed into the the

> indignity, powerlessness and destitution of your

> existence.

Excellent stuff