Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to argue with....although understand both p.o.v.


"In Sweden, it is understood that any society that claims to defend principles of legal, political, economic,

and social equality for women and girls must reject the idea that women and children,

mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought, sold, and sexually exploited by men. To

do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of female human beings, especially women

and girls who are economically and racially marginalized, is excluded from these

measures"

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thing the bindel/gold etc articles are sticking

> in loz's mind more than the opposing view


As usual, I think that we will have to agree to disagree. But anyway, it seems we are arguing - even (gosh!) agreeing on the same view on the actual subject, just disagreeing about what the Guardian thinks.

cordsm Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to argue with....although understand both p.o.v.

>

> "In Sweden, it is understood that any society that claims to defend principles of legal, political,

> economic, and social equality for women and girls must reject the idea that women and children,

> mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought, sold, and sexually exploited by men. To

> do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of female human beings, especially women

> and girls who are economically and racially marginalized, is excluded from these measures"


But aren't all those good intentions essentially useless and, indeed, counter-productive when the actual effect of such measures is to put the prostitutes in more danger than they were in before? Plus, as I said originally, cut off their one and only means of an income?


The obvious solution is to provide a way out for those that are not their of their own volition. Support, training, protection, drug help. But that seems to be an expensive path that no government seems to want to attempt.

>

> But aren't all those good intentions essentially

> useless and, indeed, counter-productive when the

> actual effect of such measures is to put the

> prostitutes in more danger than they were in

> before? Plus, as I said originally, cut off their

> one and only means of an income?

>

>Absolutely. But then there's this thing called 'idealism', normally well meaning but also normally unpragmatic tosh held by those for whom the implications of their 'idealism' has no little or no effect on their, the holders, lives

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But what is the alternative? Do we take this

> tired, middle-class, Guardianesque

> thinktheyknowitalls approach?

>

> "These poor women - look at them. They have no

> other option in life but to prostitute

> themselves."

> "What should we do?"

> "Ban prostitution!!"

>

> I understand why you are uncomfortable, but

> really, all we can so is make it as safe as

> possible and listen to the workers themselves and

> what they want/need.



Rosie, you didn't see my lips move did you, lol.

cordsm Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to

> argue with....although understand both p.o.v.

>

> "In Sweden, it is understood that any society that

> claims to defend principles of legal, political,

> economic,

> and social equality for women and girls must

> reject the idea that women and children,

> mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought,

> sold, and sexually exploited by men. To

> do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of

> female human beings, especially women

> and girls who are economically and racially

> marginalized, is excluded from these

> measures"



If anyone is bought or sold, that's slavery. If a woman or a man offers a service for a price, that's employment. Why is offering a service using your hands, brain or any other part of your body, considered to be ok, but work involving genitals is fundamentally wrong?


Economic necessity is why the majority of people work and I doubt anyone would be cleaning someone else's shit from toilets if they didn't have mouths to feed.


So if a woman or a man chooses to work in this service industry, who are you to tell them they shouldn't? The revulsion is rooted in our history of male ownership of a women's sexuality. You were worthless if your father couldn't pass you onto your husband untouched.


You are a slut if you sleep around, you are the opposite of what society expects a woman to be so you will be condemned and controlled, lest you infect the good girls with your loose ways and ownership of your own fanny.


Whatever your view of the actual work, if the person is doing it from choice, who the hell are you to tell them they shouldn't?

Then on to the practicalities.


Prostitute is out looking for business, punter comes up but is nervous because he might get nicked so hurries prostitute into car before she gets time to suss out he's s wrongun and ends up chopped up in bin bags.


Or, police have been rounding up punters so prostitute has no money and the kids have got jam on toast again tonight and no electricity.


And what about people who are disabled or too ugly to get a partner? Should they never have a sexual experience because you think paying for sex is wrong? Or others who work too hard to sustain a relationship (and don't know about Blendr) should they also be denied?


If you have a problem with violent forced repeated rape for money (which I imagine most normal people will) go after the animals who are involved in that, but leave consenting adults to do what they will with their bodies whether it involves money or not.

Gas Cooker


Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LadyDeliah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Or, police have been rounding up punters so

> > prostitute has no money and the kids have got

> jam

> > on toast again tonight and no electricity.

>

>

>

> Gas grill?

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well, to be fair, it avoids having Rosie try to

> 'educate' me.

>

> You're in trouble now..


Meh, Loz and his standard tedious mansplaining straw man schlock.


Because I said he could educate himself see, and now he's all shuddering thinking about me educating him. I feel unwell.

The cheapest escorts/prostitutes charge ?80 hr servicing maybe 4 punters a day and working 4 days a week which is ?5120 a month and that's a very conservative estimate, most charge ?150/hr and are busier and working more days. I think many choose it over bar work or cleaning etc for obvious reasons. It's very unusual for girls to work the streets now in the UK...the internet has made it completely unnecessary. At the moment there is a huge influx of Romainian girls.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Gone to the better hunting grounds during this local ongoing dry spell.
    • The Dreamliner has an impeccable service history, you are more likely to get mugged on the way to the airport than having any issue with your flight, that's how safe it is!  Have a great trip.
    • Maybe. Does that kill grass? If so, possibly the same dog that has left its poo outside my house - pretty sure it's not fox poo.
    • Here you are, intexasatthemoment (you seem to have been in Texas for a very long time!) We went to three of the recommended places yesterday,  as they were all in the same road (just near Wallington)  and I needed to give the car a run to avoid another slap on the wrist from my garage (and another new battery). Here's my findings. BARNES Parking We thought we would go here first as it was the earliest to close on a Sunday (3pm). There was no apparent entrance or anywhere to park. One notice said do not park on grass verge, and another one said staff cars only! Flittons was opposite but I'd already passed the entrance, so I had to drive down the road, turn round at the next available place (covered in signs saying do not park here) and park in Flittons car park! Plants Barnes  specialise in hardy perennials, so that was basically what they had, but an excellent selection, and many more unusual plants (or at least, plants you probably wouldn't find in a garden centre), eg Corydalis,  lots of different varieties of Epimediums, Trollius, some lovely Phygelius, lots of different ferns). The plants were divided into sections according to whether they needed sun or shade or could cope with both. They had a particularly good selection of  shade loving plants. There was really useful information above  each group of plants, which meant you didn't have to look at individual labels. All the plants looked in good health and  very well cared for. They don't produce a printed catalogue, but they  said their plant list was online (I haven't looked yet). I assume most of  the plants they have at any one time are when it's their flowering season (if they flower). I wasn't intending to buy anything, though was very tempted, but I'd definitely go here again once I've sorted out my overgrown garden. Other Stuff Don't think they sell pots, compost, etc. No cafe/tea room and I didn't see a loo, but Flittons is just over the road. FLITTONS  Parking Easy to park Plants Sorry, but mostly terrible. There was one section with vegetables and the rest was flowering plants. There was a general feeling of delapidation. Some of what was on display was actually dead (surely it would only take a minute to remove dead plants) and a lot of the rest was very poorly maintained, eg gone to seed, weedy, apparently unwatered, or with a lot of dead leaves. There was a notice asking for volunteers to work there, so I can only assume they can't afford to pay staff. Other stuff There was a notice to a play barn (?) saying invited people only, so I think they must host kids' parties or something. They redeemed themselves with a cosy little cafe with savoury stuff, nice cakes, iced chai and oat milk, and a loo. Also a selection of books and CDs on sale for charity. If you want an Andrews Sisters CD, you can find one here. There is a small shop with gift shop type stuff and a display of the history of Flittons, which apparently is family owned since the sixties (I think it was). I suspect that the arrival of Dobbies down the road must have greatly affected Flittons' fortunes, which is sad. DOBBIES  Parking Easy in theory once you had navigated a rather narrow entrance, but it was very busy so it took a while to find a space. Plants  Lots of plants, well maintained but I imagine their turnover is high. Lots of nice bedding plants for hanging baskets, window boxes etc  to cater for all tastes (ie some of it wasn't mine, but fine if you like those horrid little begonias (my opinion only) but they did have some nice (in my opinion) stuff as well. I was tempted but decided to buy from North Cross Road market. Fair selection of climbers, various different Clematis etc. I'd be happy to buy plants from here. The prices seemed reasonable and they were in good condition. Other stuff  It's a big garden centre with all that entails these days, so a large area selling garden furniture and storage, tools, animal collars, pots, all the usual stuff you would expect. Very helpful staff. There's a cafe which we didn't check out, charging points for electric cars, a Waitrose (no idea how big, we didn't look). Only on our way out did we see that there was a drive through "express section" for compost etc, which was annoying as I wanted compost and hadn't seen any anywhere,  but I was getting tired by that time. Just Down the Road A ten minute drive away is Wilderness Island, a nature reserve in Carshalton, which is well worth a visit. We heard eleven different kinds of bird (according to Merlin) and saw a Kingfisher flying down the tiny river!
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...