working girls

[cordsm]

Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to argue with....although understand both p.o.v.

"In Sweden, it is understood that any society that claims to defend principles of legal, political, economic,

and social equality for women and girls must reject the idea that women and children,

mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought, sold, and sexually exploited by men. To

do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of female human beings, especially women

and girls who are economically and racially marginalized, is excluded from these

measures"

[Loz]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thing the bindel/gold etc articles are sticking

> in loz's mind more than the opposing view

As usual, I think that we will have to agree to disagree. But anyway, it seems we are arguing - even (gosh!) agreeing on the same view on the actual subject, just disagreeing about what the Guardian thinks.

[Loz]

cordsm Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to argue with....although understand both p.o.v.

>

> "In Sweden, it is understood that any society that claims to defend principles of legal, political,

> economic, and social equality for women and girls must reject the idea that women and children,

> mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought, sold, and sexually exploited by men. To

> do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of female human beings, especially women

> and girls who are economically and racially marginalized, is excluded from these measures"

But aren't all those good intentions essentially useless and, indeed, counter-productive when the actual effect of such measures is to put the prostitutes in more danger than they were in before? Plus, as I said originally, cut off their one and only means of an income?

The obvious solution is to provide a way out for those that are not their of their own volition. Support, training, protection, drug help. But that seems to be an expensive path that no government seems to want to attempt.

[????]

>

> But aren't all those good intentions essentially

> useless and, indeed, counter-productive when the

> actual effect of such measures is to put the

> prostitutes in more danger than they were in

> before? Plus, as I said originally, cut off their

> one and only means of an income?

>

>Absolutely. But then there's this thing called 'idealism', normally well meaning but also normally unpragmatic tosh held by those for whom the implications of their 'idealism' has no little or no effect on their, the holders, lives

[northlondoner]

Any idea on pricing?

[LadyDeliah]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But what is the alternative? Do we take this

> tired, middle-class, Guardianesque

> thinktheyknowitalls approach?

>

> "These poor women - look at them. They have no

> other option in life but to prostitute

> themselves."

> "What should we do?"

> "Ban prostitution!!"

>

> I understand why you are uncomfortable, but

> really, all we can so is make it as safe as

> possible and listen to the workers themselves and

> what they want/need.

Rosie, you didn't see my lips move did you, lol.

[LadyDeliah]

cordsm Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally, I find the Swedish policy very hard to

> argue with....although understand both p.o.v.

>

> "In Sweden, it is understood that any society that

> claims to defend principles of legal, political,

> economic,

> and social equality for women and girls must

> reject the idea that women and children,

> mostly girls, are commodities that can be bought,

> sold, and sexually exploited by men. To

> do otherwise is to allow that a separate class of

> female human beings, especially women

> and girls who are economically and racially

> marginalized, is excluded from these

> measures"

If anyone is bought or sold, that's slavery. If a woman or a man offers a service for a price, that's employment. Why is offering a service using your hands, brain or any other part of your body, considered to be ok, but work involving genitals is fundamentally wrong?

Economic necessity is why the majority of people work and I doubt anyone would be cleaning someone else's shit from toilets if they didn't have mouths to feed.

So if a woman or a man chooses to work in this service industry, who are you to tell them they shouldn't? The revulsion is rooted in our history of male ownership of a women's sexuality. You were worthless if your father couldn't pass you onto your husband untouched.

You are a slut if you sleep around, you are the opposite of what society expects a woman to be so you will be condemned and controlled, lest you infect the good girls with your loose ways and ownership of your own fanny.

Whatever your view of the actual work, if the person is doing it from choice, who the hell are you to tell them they shouldn't?

[LadyDeliah]

Then on to the practicalities.

Prostitute is out looking for business, punter comes up but is nervous because he might get nicked so hurries prostitute into car before she gets time to suss out he's s wrongun and ends up chopped up in bin bags.

Or, police have been rounding up punters so prostitute has no money and the kids have got jam on toast again tonight and no electricity.

And what about people who are disabled or too ugly to get a partner? Should they never have a sexual experience because you think paying for sex is wrong? Or others who work too hard to sustain a relationship (and don't know about Blendr) should they also be denied?

If you have a problem with violent forced repeated rape for money (which I imagine most normal people will) go after the animals who are involved in that, but leave consenting adults to do what they will with their bodies whether it involves money or not.

[Loz]

Can't see anything there that didn't have me nodding in agreement, LD. Legalise it and make it safe.

[LadyDeliah]

Glad to be singing from the same hymn sheet for once :-)

[Loz]

Had to happen sooner or later...! :o)

[MelonSmasher]

East Dulwich is full of them

[LadyDeliah]

It's just that people call it marriage.

[Otta]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Or, police have been rounding up punters so

> prostitute has no money and the kids have got jam

> on toast again tonight and no electricity.

Gas grill?

[LadyDeliah]

Lol, or bonfire maybe?

[Otta]

Blow torch.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Gas Cooker

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LadyDeliah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Or, police have been rounding up punters so

> > prostitute has no money and the kids have got

> jam

> > on toast again tonight and no electricity.

>

>

>

> Gas grill?

[MrBen]

As in:

"Whit y'oan the night then eh?"

" Am oan the peevo n gas cookerz bud n few wee eccies aifter eh?"

[RosieH]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well, to be fair, it avoids having Rosie try to

> 'educate' me.

>

> You're in trouble now..

Meh, Loz and his standard tedious mansplaining straw man schlock.

Because I said he could educate himself see, and now he's all shuddering thinking about me educating him. I feel unwell.

[clockworkorange]

Oldest trade in the world. It can't/won't and shouldn't be stopped. Safety first though. Saw it on lordship lane few weeks back, just outside the Iceland/new m&s.

[NickT]

The cheapest escorts/prostitutes charge ?80 hr servicing maybe 4 punters a day and working 4 days a week which is ?5120 a month and that's a very conservative estimate, most charge ?150/hr and are busier and working more days. I think many choose it over bar work or cleaning etc for obvious reasons. It's very unusual for girls to work the streets now in the UK...the internet has made it completely unnecessary. At the moment there is a huge influx of Romainian girls.

[malcolmchurch]

I am going to get into trouble now ......

check out punternet.com

the best local brothel is www.debbiesmassage.net in Anerley, but I have never ben!

[Jeremy]

Hope your wife doesn't go through your browser history Malcolm!

[Dopamine1979]

You are a brave man Malcolm.

A brave, brave man.

[jimbo1964]

This thread is going horribly wrong.