losing Icelands

[Mustard]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> I have been there -- when my husband was a student

> he shopped at the Iceland in Peckham regularly

> until I broke him of the habit. It wasn't any

> more expensive to eat fresh food from Peckham. He

> simply didn't like cooking but I do, so I made our

> meals.

>

> The name of the store is Iceland, so while they do

> sell other things, as the name suggests anyone who

> claims to do most of their shopping at Iceland

> would be buying a lot of frozen food.

>

> If someone is only buying eggs and milk there, the

> closure might be disappointing but its unlikely to

> make a real difference to the cost of their weekly

> expenditure.

So, you don't shop there, therefore this thread is really irrelevant to you, yet you still keep commenting on it.

[LondonMix]

No, I don't shop there now and I don't shop at M&S either but I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to comment or have an opinion. Can you please explain all the rules to me Mustard??

Louisa, I agree that the ready meals are crap at M&S as well. I also agree the Co-op is overpriced. Lidl in Peckham is much better value when you are on budget. I tend to most of my shopping at Sainsburys and the local shops both on LL and in Peckham depending on what I need.

[Mustard]

Some people like to shop locally, or need to as they don't have transport, or can have mobility issues. Not everyone can go to Lidl in Peckham, nor will they want to spend ?35 online to have a delivery from Iceland.

Almost every time I have been in Iceland recently it has been busy. The staff are very efficient and get the lines moving quickly. Nowhere did I say you weren't allowed to comment on here. But as you don't shop there, and made your husband stop going there, your comments do seem irrelevant. Maybe you could charter a mini bus and conduct a shopping expedition to Peckham to instruct people who want to save money.

The only frozen foods I have bought in Iceland are peas, fish fingers and some oven chips.

[LondonMix]

The reason why this thread concerns me is because it shows a total lack of perspective.

Will those who like to pop into Iceland be inconvenienced, particularly if they don't shop there enough to warrant ordering a 35 quid bi-weekly shop. Yes. Will those who have come to know the staff miss the sense of community and routine. Of course they will and hopefully, M&S will take some of the staff on.

However, people framing this as the freeholder and M&S pushing huge swathes of ED's population (including vulnerable pensioners) to the brink of hunger are distorting things in a way that's totally not acceptable in my book.

First, DaveR's statistics do not measure economic deprivation and are not a proxy for how many people in ED are living below the poverty line. Here are some real economic measures for the ward:

There are over 12,000 people living in ED Ward. Of those there are only 295 people on income support in the Ward as of 2012. There are only 350 pensioners receiving pension credit (as of 2012) and there are only 1,175 people (in 2005) on housing benefit or council tax benefit (please note that the last group will include people in the first two categories). Also, since 2005, the income support and pension credit figures have fallen be circa 30%. If housing benefit has followed the same trend, the 2012 figure number would be around 800 people.

I do think that keeping affordable options for the less than 10% of ED's population that are on benefits is important and I support efforts to develop more affordable housing / social housing locally to keep the area economically mixed. However, having members of my own family that are on benefits I can attest to the fact that just because you are on benefits of some sort doesn't mean you want to or do shop at Iceland and vis-a-versa.

A shop is closing. Part of this is due to demographic changes. While inconvenient, there are affordable fresh food alternatives in walking distance and for those who like their unique frozen food offerings, you can get them delivered for free.

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6263560&c=East+Dulwich&d=14&e=14&g=345137&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1410855241995&enc=1&dsFamilyId=1354

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6263560&c=East+Dulwich&d=14&e=14&g=345137&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1410855241995&enc=1&dsFamilyId=1037

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6263560&c=East+Dulwich&d=14&e=14&g=345137&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1410855241995&enc=1&dsFamilyId=1362

[edhistory]

More confusion about the distinction between "East Dulwich" and "East Dulwich Ward".

John K

[LondonMix]

I know ED Ward is smaller than ED in most people's minds but stats only exist for the Ward so its the best proxy for offical data.

[Jessie]

You don't need to be on benefits to be struggling financially, believe me.

[Jeremy]

People use Iceland as their social hub, therefore it should stay? Seriously?

[LondonMix]

Jessie Wrote:

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> You don't need to be on benefits to be struggling

> financially, believe me.

I agree Jessie. However, there is a difference between strapped for cash and as some have asserted ?below the poverty line?. Saying huge swathes of ED are living at or below the poverty line is simply not true.

[DaveR]

Lots of people suggesting I have been alarmist ("pushing people to the brink of hunger") or somehow misrepresenting the stats. I thought I made a simple point - the fact that ED shops now appear to cater disproportionately to those with more expensive tastes does not mean that those people are the majority, it just means that they have more money to spend. In those circumstances, assuming that Iceland giving way to M&S is not going to affect a large number of people is probably wrong.

By way of an aside, it's interesting how everybody feels qualified to dismiss statistics that are inconsistent with their own experience/prejudices. The point about indicators of deprivation is that it has been established through analysis that certain factors (on which data is available) correlate strongly with deprivation, so they are a fairly reliable proxy, but by degree (hence 1 - 4 indicators). Of course they are not perfect, but you can be pretty sure the dataset and methodology is more robust than 'what me and all my friends think'.

[LondonMix]

I wasn't referring to you as alarmist by the way.

However, indicators of deprivation are not a direct link to economic circumstances.and single indicator anyhow is usually not seen as a sign of deprivation in and of itself. Having a long term illness would account for a household having one marker. Sharing a household also counts.

A better measure is the data that has been linked to. I'm not going on gut feeling but using more accurate data on local economics from the same published source as you.

[DaveR]

"However, indicators of deprivation are not a direct link to economic circumstances.and single indicator anyhow is usually not seen as a sign of deprivation in and of itself."

do you have a link for that?

[LondonMix]

Yes-- the same site you have sourced your data from breaks down the deprviation stats in more detail. The stats I linked to come under economic deprivation statistics sub-category on the website.

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadPage.do?pageId=1003&tc=1410865942308&a=7&b=6501600&c=SE22+9DJ&d=14&e=13&f=30636&g=6336684&i=1001x1003x1004x1005&l=2474&o=362&m=0&r=0&s=1410865942308&enc=1

Also, if you click on the explanatory notes from your link, you'll see what the non-economic factors are that are being considered, many of which have no direct relationship with how much money people have.

[*Bob*]

It's a bit disappointing to be told that a significant percentage of that generation who were able to make a dozen meals from a single chicken; make do and mend; fix mechanical and electrical devices; add-up without calculators; survive tumultuous and turbulent times - a generation brought-up on common sense, resourcefulness and organisational thrift - now can't manage when Iceland closes.

[Cedges]

Has anyone asked Iceland if they are looking at any other sites nearby or are we just assuming Iceland will be gone forever more?

[Jeremy]

No, of course not. They're too busy demonstrating how much they care about the poor and the elderly. By posting on here about Iceland.

[Otta]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> However, people framing this as the freeholder and

> M&S pushing huge swathes of ED's population

> (including vulnerable pensioners) to the brink of

> hunger are distorting things in a way that's

> totally not acceptable in my book.

Totally agree that M&S / The freeholders are doing nothing wrong here.

[????]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> It's a bit disappointing to be told that a

> significant percentage of that generation who were

> able to make a dozen meals from a single chicken;

> make do and mend; fix mechanical and electrical

> devices; add-up without calculators; survive

> tumultuous and turbulent times - a generation

> brought-up on common sense, resourcefulness and

> organisational thrift - now can't manage when

> Iceland closes.

That generation is now mainly dead Bobby...this is the first wave of the spoilt, overindulged Baby boom generation hitting old age

[jjjjj]

The wonderful thing about this part of London is the diversity.

I think the loss of Iceland to an M&S is sadder not due to the loss of Iceland but the fact it's not going to be an independent or a shop that won't be competing with others near by.

After a cheap shop? Tesco on East Dulwich Road or Sainsbury's. Or even Iceland in Peckham is really not that far, and you get ASDA too. That's a lot of supermarkets in a relatively small area.

[Callie]

jjjjj Wrote:

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> > After a cheap shop? Tesco on East Dulwich Road or

> Sainsbury's. Or even Iceland in Peckham is really

> not that far, and you get ASDA too. That's a lot

> of supermarkets in a relatively small area.

I don't think Tesco & Sainsbury's are that cheap

& it's not just about cheap for me as there are things

I like to buy in Iceland that I can't get in Co-op.

The Iceland in Peckham is crap compared to the one on Lordship Lane

& no way handy for me.

[Callie]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Nope-- here is the website. You shop online and

> delivery is free

>

> http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/

I've tried it but unfortunately they don't deliver to East Dulwich at present.

[LondonMix]

Maybe once Iceland here closes they will

[Sue]

jjjjj Wrote:

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>Or even Iceland in Peckham is really

> not that far, and you get ASDA too.

xxxxxx

And Lidl!

[DulwichFox]

and you can get your nails done..

and get your phone unlocked if its a bit suspect.

Foxy :)

[Sue]

And go to Primark :)