Has anyone tried the Alpha course?

[snorky]

If you get comfort form it, then get on with it - my HUGE beef is that we bother to give this particular compilation of unsubstantiated myth, parables and folkelore some kind of status that is patently isnt - like all other religious texts, its a mishmash of rules & regulations to keep people in line and ensure that someones particular brand of society retained some continuity

to argue that these awful, turgid, amended and misinterpreted pile of shite compiliations are something special is shopwing that many many people tryly have difficulty segregating life and prefabricated bollcks

All religion keeps you down, its makes to toe the line, it ensures generations of unthinking slavery and obedience - it is shite

There - no more pussyfooting around, no dancing around the subject any longer - no more tolerance of this nasty, sneering underhand , pervasive and accepted version of mass oppression.

*** last segment of bile has been EDITED***

[LegalEagle-ish]

But Snorky, that's exactly what I am doing.

[microbite]

Snorky, now don't be holding anything back lad just get it off your chest.... >:D

[SeanMacGabhann]

forum guidelines snorks, forum guidelines...

[Crona]

So the whole story went like this:

Jesus, Day 3: Blah blah blah

Disciple, Day 3 (evening): I shall not forget to memorise Day 3

.

.

.

Jesus, Day 23: Blah, Blah, Blah

Disciple, Day 23 (evening): I shall not forget to memorise Day 23

.

.

.

.

60 years later

Disciple: I need to write down day 3 and day 23 but I don?t know how to write

Scribe: Dictate and I will write down for you

Disciple: I speak Aramaic.

Scribe: No worries. I will translate and write down in man made Greek to save time

Disciple: Brilliant. Thanks

[Ted Max]

"Scotland will be reborn the day the last minister is strangled with the last copy of the Sunday Post?

Tom Nairn. Who wouldn't have been allowed to post his most famous phrase on the Forum either, it seems.

EDIT to add the italicised bits.

[Bizzy]

Mark,

It was not my intention to be arrogant. Saving or being saved, is another metaphorical term used when one has accepted Christ as their savior.

With regard to the Old Testament books you have quoted -

Exodus 21:7 - this should not be read as a verse on its own. That chapter actually relates to the laws of justice at the time. Of course it would be wrong to do in this day and age. It's not something a Christian must believe in just because it is in the Bible, a book retelling a story. Christianity wasn't even thought about when those rules were made.

Lev 20:21 - A literal interpretation taken.

[LegalEagle-ish]

Crona Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So the whole story went like this:

> Jesus, Day 3: Blah blah blah

> Disciple, Day 3 (evening): I shall not forget to

> memorise Day 3

> .

> .

> .

> Jesus, Day 23: Blah, Blah, Blah

> Disciple, Day 23 (evening): I shall not forget to

> memorise Day 23

> .

> .

> .

> .

> 60 years later

> Disciple: I need to write down day 3 and day 23

> but I don?t know how to write

> Scribe: Dictate and I will write down for you

> Disciple: I speak Aramaic.

> Scribe: No worries. I will translate and write

> down in man made Greek to save time

> Disciple: Brilliant. Thanks

The thing is, a lot of what we consider to be accepted historical accounts of stuff from 2000 years ago was written a couple of hundreds of years after the event and if any eyewitness to something wasn't a learned scholar, this would be the normal way of doing things.

Palestine of 2000 yrs ago was still under enormous Greek influence and so most writing was done in Greek at that time. Some people wrote in latin, but most wrote in Greek.

[Bizzy]

Snorky - why so aggressive?

"All religion keeps you down, its makes to toe the line, it ensures generations of unthinking slavery and obedience - it is shite

There - no more pussyfooting around, no dancing around the subject any longer - no more tolerance of this nasty, sneering underhand , pervasive and accepted version of mass oppression.

hang the vicars and imans, garrote the Pope and think for yourselves"

Religion has taught me to think for myself.

[PeckhamRose]

I have been gone an hour and dammit snorky writes something that looks great then edits it out. Thanks bizzy for copying it in your post. I'm with snorky.

And there MAY be something out there. We don't know everything of course. But I refuse to follow rules made by religious MAN which discriminate and ruin my life. Until we have definite proof of what "it" is, why are we allowing ourselves to be ruled and manipulated by literally blind faith? And bizzy, did your religious leaders give you permission to write that religion has taught you to think for yourself?

As for the Alpha Course, it is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant, for the religious leaders, a real money spinner, and people will "flock" to it. PraiseGodSendMoney. Christian Scientists my ar$$$$e.

[Bizzy]

I very much doubt that the Alpha Course was designed to bring in a steady flow of income.

I like to think of a course like that as people dedicating their time to other people they don't know. How often do we see that today? Do you think these courses are run just to lure people in then take their cash? :-S

[LegalEagle-ish]

If that is their aim - I think they are failing miserably - all us impoverished particpants didn't pay a penny and got a lovely tasty meal too. If they start asking for my bank account details I'll let you know, but so far all I saw were a load of people who are excited about Jesus and want to share what excites them. Pretty normal if you ask me.

[Ted Max]

Hmmm. The traditional C of E heirarchy would love to "deal with" elements of its Evangelical wing by getting rid of a few "troublesome priests". The right wingers (many/ most of of whom are from the Evangelical side) are giving it no end of grief at the moment over women, gay Bishops etc.

Trouble for R Williams and the rest is the Evangelical churches tend to be the ones with the large congregations, ergo the money, coming in. A split between the trad liberals and the Evangelicals would bankrupt the CofE. And the threat has been made, by the way.

As Alpha is a large recruitment vehicle closely aligned to the Evangelical side of things, it is in fact a crucial financial driver.

So no, the course is not designed to "take people's cash", but it is part of a power battle within the C of E. The power battle is about theology, but is being played out using money as a lever - and Alpha has its part to play in that.

[LegalEagle-ish]

Not that the CoE ever uses it's huge financial reserves to blackmail anyone in it's ranks, of course!

I'm not really into divisions and taking sides. I'm just happy that courses offering further insight into Jesus are available.

[Ted Max]

Not that the CoE ever uses it's huge financial reserves to blackmail anyone in it's ranks, of course!

What does this mean? Genuine enquiry.

[snorky]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Snorky - why so aggressive?

>

God me aggressive - remember, he made us all, in 6 days no less.

BTW, peter Sutcliffe beleived that God told him to personally cleanse the streets of Prostitutes- was that your God or another one ?

[Bizzy]

Just had to google Peter Sutcliffe as I didn't know who he was.

I can confirm it wasn't my God that gave him that personal message.

So you do believe God made you? Good start.

[snorky]

rubbish - never heard of peter sutcliffe?!

[Crona]

"...all I saw were a load of people who are excited about Jesus and want to share what excites them. Pretty normal if you ask me."

Proselytism

1. The act or practice of proselyting; the making of converts to a religion or a religious sect, or to any opinion, system, or party.

2. Conversion to a religion, system, or party.

"The thing is, a lot of what we consider to be accepted historical accounts of stuff from 2000 years ago was written a couple of hundreds of years after the event and if any eyewitness to something wasn't a learned scholar, this would be the normal way of doing things."

Are you suggesting that recording History that way is accurate to the letter?

[Cassius]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just had to google Peter Sutcliffe as I didn't

> know who he was.

>

Are you either very young or not been in this country for long?

[Bizzy]

Very young. I thought Peter Sutcliffe was a Footballer before I googled it.

[Huguenot]

Chuckle.

The only universal truth on this thread is that the silliness of people's supernatural convictions is in direct proportion to the fervour with which they pursue them.

It's patently ridiculous to be lectured on spiritual insight by someone who scarcely knows what happens in their own society.

It's not even as if the arguments have logical consistency. The Bible either is or is not the word of God. If you suggest the you can pick or choose elements based on modern relevance or metaphorical interpretation, then you're casting it as an interesting work of fiction that throws up some nice ideas. That's not a church, that's a sixth form study group.

Sixth form study groups can 'save' you in the same way as Alcoholics Anonymous can. That doesn't make them sacred, and doesn't qualify the attendees to stroll around in the ethereal smugness of the righteous. You're just mixed up kids that have had some good advice. Good for you.

A religion is something different, and by necessity dogmatic and expansionist. It requires suspension of critical faculties and obeisance to the organisational hierarchy. This isn't being saved, it's being mugged.

[Huguenot]

LE, I'm struggling to see where you're going with your psuedo-historical arguments about oral traditions and skilled translators.

If you accept that the Bible as we have it today is the subject of selective editing in which vast tracts of contemporary accounts were discarded or amended by man, then this is by definition NOT the word of God or Jesus. Any chance of identifying provenance went out the window in the editing process. You simply have no idea who wrote what you're reading and why.

It hence provides no evidence of the likelihood of the existence of God or his son.

Instead the only reasonable interpretation of the Bible is that it's an organisational manifesto.

You may well agree with some of the philosophical points raised. I do too. However, the recommendation of most critics is that you should judge the church as an organisation by precedent.

To claim that somehow you are unique, or this time it's different is the last refuge of the habitual victim. You must have met battered wives in your line of business and wondered why they kept going back for more?

[PeckhamRose]

Oh pleeeeeease watch this short film. It's hysterical. In my opinion.

[snorky]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just had to google Peter Sutcliffe as I didn't

> know who he was.

>

> I can confirm it wasn't my God that gave him that

> personal message.

>

> So you do believe God made you? Good start.

Which God was it then ? there seems to be a few obviously - I dont want to waste my time worshipping false Idols and all that shit - I'm a busy man

Are Hindus godless cos they dont worship your proper authentic God ? does that mean that 10% of the worlds populace may be screwed come decision day, just cos they made the wrong choice of God, yet may have lived decent lives ?

Should I ask Jesus for forgiveness on my death bed, I will be granted a free pass into Heaven apparently - so why bother spending all your life worshipping him,we hen a few quite morphine clouded seconds at the end of your hedonistic is all that you need?

why does god let babies die or allow disease & injury to maim & disable children who have done no wrong ?

Why does the Pope still force followers of his brand of religion to live shitty, poverty ridden lives , banging out kids every year or so , cos they cant use decent contraception - is this the same god ? are catholcis wrong ? will catholics go to heaven , even though they seem to have got it all wrong ?

Questions , Questions