A political revolution? ..er maybe

[????]

As a journalist in the Times tweeted(roughly)

the people of Clacton have put a massive two fingers up to the political establishment by voting in exactly the same person thay had as their MP last week but he's now wearing a different coloured rossette

[Otta]

Much as I don't like UKIP, I feel kind of excited by this. Even last night on Question Time all the other parties were still dismissing it as just a protest vote or a racist vote. It's like they're refusing to wake up to the fact that people think they're shit.

[david_carnell]

More worryingly (or me at least) was the fact that a much bigger coup was narrowly averted in the other byelection.

To avoid a loss by just a few hundred votes in a heartland stronghold should send shivers down the spine of the Labour leadership and campaign teams.

Something tells me it'll result in some brow-furrowing, hand-wringing and not a lot else.

[Otta]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Something tells me it'll result in some

> brow-furrowing, hand-wringing and not a lot else.

I hope you're wrong, though I doubt it.

I guess when it comes to the GE a lot of people will go back to blue or red and UKIP won't do as well as they're hoping. At which point they'll be dismissed by the "main parties" as a flash in the pan. But I think they will continue to grow until they're taken seriously.

[????]

A Labour backbencher said "Mr Milliband has done a lot of listening, he now needs to do some hearing", which I thought was a great quote for any of the leaders

[Jah Lush]

I was in Chichester last weekend. On Sunday afternoon I had a bit of a stroll through the town and noticed a UKIP stall. The old girl behind it was wearing an oversized yellow T-shirt that bore the slogan "We want our country back." I thought... from who or what? Back to the 50s? I didn't like to ask.

[david_carnell]

The LRB has a storming article on UKIP. Really is well worth a read all the way through for a fascintating insight into the minds of UKIP members and voters. And life in Thanet.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n19/james-meek/in-farageland

[Otta]

"Labour leader Ed Miliband tells the BBC News Channel: "What we saw last night was a Tory party losing in their own back yard in Clacton and in retreat on what used to be their front line in the North West."

Is he having a f**king bubble?

[david_carnell]

Sadly, no.

That sort of pointlessly optimisitic delusion is what all modern political leaders have to dole out in these circumstances.

They're actually trying to say that the Labour share of the vte went up 0.8% from 2010.

Never mind that you surrendered a 6000 majority into a 600 one. And that 2010 was an electoral disaster. If you've only managed 0.8% in the intervening 4 years something is very very wrong.

[Otta]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> That sort of pointlessly optimisitic delusion is

> what all modern political leaders have to dole out

> in these circumstances.

I am sure you're right, it's just so depressing.

This isn't a go at Miliband, because I'm sure the others would have put exactly the same spin on it (and I think Ed's a good guy), but for me it's exactly what is wrong. The politicians think they know best what is best for us all, so they spin everything as a positive.

I'd honestly rather hear him say that this shows that people are not convinced, and that they need to hear the people more, rather than assuming they know what's good for them.

I know that would be suicide and that he can't do it, but that's what depresses me.

[StraferJack]

"I know that would be suicide a"

if that's the case why blame the politician - why not blame the people who would judge him/her for it?

[????]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The LRB has a storming article on UKIP. Really is

> well worth a read all the way through for a

> fascintating insight into the minds of UKIP

> members and voters. And life in Thanet.

>

> http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n19/james-meek/in-faragel

> and

Very interesting as you said.

[DulwichVillageLady]

Are you guardian readers struggling to accept UKIP?

[red devil]

:) Over to you Quids...

[david_carnell]

I can't stand the man but he's unfortunately accurate here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100289196/after-the-catastrophe-of-heywood-labour-is-staring-down-the-barrels-of-ukips-tanks/

For a while it looked like Miliband was going to nail that "anti-establishment" vote with his attacks on big energy, Murdoch etc. That momentum has been lost and if he wins in May it'll be by his finger nails.

[????]

...that was just populist rubish too DC.....

[david_carnell]

Perhaps - but at least it was popular! I'd take that at the moment.

Interestingly, the public are to the left of Miliband on a number of issues. Rail, energy and mail renationalisation, income tax, minimum wage, zero-hour contracts and rent-capping yet on all of these issues Labour remain silent.

Meanwhile they take a beating on issues where the public is to the right of them: immigration, Europe, crime, etc.

A bizarre mix.

[????]

Income Tax...you sure?

plus Labour haven't been quiet on Zero_hour Contarcts or Minimum wage (were you watching their conference??)

But those are 'micro' issues the biggest ones are defeceit (ooops, forgot that one David M...and C:) ); overall management of the economy and Immigration and a bit further down the list the NHS. Labour only doing well on one of them.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Agree with that DC. They need to be so much bolder.

[Loz]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Interestingly, the public are to the left of Miliband on a number of issues.

And yet, the most interesting thing about these by-elections was the swing. Normally, the swing goes from left to right to left, depending on the colours of the government of the day. But in these elections the swing from Tory/LibDem has gone to the right.

Which probably means that the old-world view of left-right politics is now completely irrelevant.

[El Pibe]

"The LRB has a storming article on UKIP."

Pshaw, what's all this well informed nonsense, deflecting from the real issues of straight bananas, and errr Europe innit, Polish undercutting our wages, good workers mind you but that's hardly the point, ignoring the fact that we want our country back, but then what do you expect from people who can read!!!

[????]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> david_carnell Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Interestingly, the public are to the left of

> Miliband on a number of issues.

>

> And yet, the most interesting thing about these

> by-elections was the swing. Normally, the swing

> goes from left to right to left, depending on the

> colours of the government of the day. But in

> these elections the swing from Tory/LibDem has

> gone to the right.

>

> Which probably means that the old-world view of

> left-right politics is now completely irrelevant.

Some of us have been saying the same thing on the forum for years.....

[Otta]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> "I know that would be suicide a"

>

> if that's the case why blame the politician - why

> not blame the people who would judge him/her for

> it?

Where did I blame him? The whole sentence was "I know that would be suicide and that he can't do it, but that's what depresses me".

I don't blame him, I don't even blame Cameron. I blame Tony Blair a fair bit, because he was a master of playing to "it" and set the modern standard. The "it" that I really blame are the stupid f**king people I share a country with. The ones that will vote based on who plays the part best and looks / seems most "prime ministerial".

I'm not the most "up" on politics, compared to someone like D_C (this is a compliment by the way) I feel somewhat inept when talking about this stuff (but at least I can admit that). But I am not stupid, and I won't vote because someone looks or sounds the part.

Hopefully one day it will happen, but at the moment I can't imagine a politician ever being able to show weakness and use it to his/her advantage. They have to be full of false bluster, and it's just a load of old crap frankly.

[miga]

.

[StraferJack]

"This isn't a go at Miliband, because I'm sure the others would have put exactly the same spin on it (and I think Ed's a good guy), but for me it's exactly what is wrong. The politicians think they know best what is best for us all, so they spin everything as a positive. "

That reads like you blame the politician to me?