Aircraft noise

[AnnetteCurtain]

Here's a rare opportunity to reduce flights over the area. Please sign & circulate!

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/fair-flights-paths-for-heathrow

[edcam]

Oh not again. We live in London. There will be planes.

[AnnetteCurtain]

Over the past 16 years, I've lived in Hackney, Islington, Walthamstow and Hammersmith and never found the planes troublesome until I ventured south of the river 5 years ago. Honestly, we've got it bad & it doesn't have to be like this! I could move, but I have a daughter happily at nursery and a commute which would become complicated by heading north again. It's the frequency as much as the decibels which really grates. So if you're fed up with being woken at 4.30am & feeling slightly stressed until respite around 11pm then this is the petition for you!

[maxxi]

This is what happens when you change your forum id - someone comes along and puts new nets up.

Personally I rather miss the ear shattering roar of a Concorde going overhead so this doesn't bother me.

[Jah Lush]

Oh FFS! Not another bloody aircraft noise thread.

[Nigello]

It might sound trite, even glib, but if you want to hear, you will. There's no doubt that aircraft noise can be disturbing but don't underestimate the brain's ability to tune out from sounds you'd really prefer to hear.

Use wax earplugs, improve your sleeping regime and just accept that the noise is there. After a while I think you won't be half as disturbed as you are now.

[AnnetteCurtain]

Apologies all if this is something that has been thoroughly mauled over in the past. I'm new to the forum & actually live in Camberwell which may be affected worse. Didn't quite appreciate the wrath I'd incur. I simply wanted to raise awareness of the HACAN petition. This an important moment: Heathrow is conducting trials for new flight paths for the first time in almost 20 years. But you seem attached to your planes so I'll bow out and retreat to the altogether gentler Camberwell forums.

[Penguin68]

Look folks, it's quite simple - the only way (short of closing London airports) of shifting flights away from where you live, is to shift them towards where other people live. This is the biggest NIMBY issue we have, as (unlike those who wish to avoid something new, and possibly actually stop-able, like housing) the planes are there, will be there, and have to fly somewhere.

What this petition is actually saying is 'not over my back-yard, make someone else miserable'. If flights were (miraculously) steered down some tortuous path which didn't over-fly housing not only would this add considerably both to flight times and flight costs, but these paths would tend to be so narrow and tortuous that the risk of in-air accident would soar.

This issue has been exhaustively discussed on this forum - some are clearly genuinely made miserable by the noise, most (I suspect it's most) can either live with it, or have found ways of not noticing it.

We are not 'attached' to our planes (fond memories of Concorde notwithstanding) - but we (most, by no means all) have learnt to live with them, and indeed generally ignore them.

[LD929]

I am actually all for making other people miserable. I can deal with the planes but would rather share the burden.

Happy to have the post Annette and I signed the petition.

For the rest of you -- you can read the headline. If the subject doesn't interest you, don't read the post. Pretty simple.

Penguin68 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Look folks, it's quite simple - the only way

> (short of closing London airports) of shifting

> flights away from where you live, is to shift them

> towards where other people live. This is the

> biggest NIMBY issue we have, as (unlike those who

> wish to avoid something new, and possibly actually

> stop-able, like housing) the planes are there,

> will be there, and have to fly somewhere.

>

> What this petition is actually saying is 'not over

> my back-yard, make someone else miserable'. If

> flights were (miraculously) steered down some

> tortuous path which didn't over-fly housing not

> only would this add considerably both to flight

> times and flight costs, but these paths would tend

> to be so narrow and tortuous that the risk of

> in-air accident would soar.

>

> This issue has been exhaustively discussed on this

> forum - some are clearly genuinely made miserable

> by the noise, most (I suspect it's most) can

> either live with it, or have found ways of not

> noticing it.

>

> We are not 'attached' to our planes (fond memories

> of Concorde notwithstanding) - but we (most, by no

> means all) have learnt to live with them, and

> indeed generally ignore them.

[edcam]

I live in Camberwell now too and really don't think it's bad. I didn't when I lived in East Dulwich and I don't now. I don't see the point in these petitions - they are just designed to divert planes over someone else's house. Why would anyone take that idea seriously and how is that reasonable?

I'm inclined to agree with Nigello - if you want to hear it you will.

[*Bob*]

Annette - don't be put-off generally - it's just that 'do a search first' is one of the easiest ways to avoid a frosty response on well-attended internet forums.

That said, this petition is a nonsense, with no detail or explanation. No wonder the currency and capital of petitioning in general has been devalued to near zero!

At present, aircraft noise is already shared 'as much as it can be' - at least without dismantling and re-laying the runways and completely reworking the system of stacks and landing routes that has enabled the airport to run with an enviable safety record for nearly half a century.

I find it ironic that someone from Brockley - claiming new/recent flight path intrusions over their bit of London - has signed a petition asking for fairer sharing of flight paths!

[mikeb]

One day we will have to move our main hub airport away from Heathrow.

For a country with prevailing westerly winds, it's just in the wrong place. In 1953, there were 62,000 flights and 1 million passengers. In 1989, there were 329,000 flights and 37m passengers. In 2013, there were 469,000 flights and 72m passengers.

My rough guess would have the total population overflown by landings and takeoffs at Heathrow to be pushing 3 million people (a proportion of combined population of south London, Surrey and Berkshire). Moving the main airport to somewhere else (ideally north west of London) could dramatically reduce this number. Yes this is Nimbyism but it's also common sense that we shouldn't be landing this many aircraft directly over this many people.

One day we will do it. Hong Kong did it. Berlin did it. And in the meantime, we will sink another ?15-20bn into a third runway at Heathrow before we realise our mistake.

[njc97]

Mike, to be fair Berlin still hasn't done it and doesn't quite know when it will. And it never has had a hub airport. (but not that I disagree with your points about Heathrow)

[henryb]

It is bad here though. I am with AC. I have lived many other parts of London and have not been bothered by flight noise before but when the flights are directly overhead and start at 4 am it is incredibly noisy and disruptive to sleep. Maybe it is the valley that amplifies it... or maybe ED is a very quiet place generally so you notice it more. But seriously I have never been woken up by a plane before I moved here.

I guess there is not a lot that can be done about existing air traffic but as Heathrow are campaigning to expand then there is certainly a lot that can be done to not make it any worse.

[AnnetteCurtain]

Ok,so I'm venturing back...

HACAN (of the petition above) is a campaign group headed by the very reasonable and un-hysterical John Stewart. His informative site gives the full picture. Essentially 18 years ago the increase in air traffic made it necessary for planes to start aligning for Heathrow as far away as Lewisham. New guidance technology means this is no longer a given & opens up other possibilities for flight paths across London. In several North American cities the technology has been used to channel aircraft along very narrow corridors with intolerable results for residents. There have been major protests, notably in Chicago. That could happen here too.

However HACAN is working with Heathrow to explore another option: dispersing flight paths would massively reduce the number of flights over any given area and afford everyone some respite. These paths would avoid the few existing plane-free areas.

This is not about nimbyism: the planes aren't going to take some tortuous route to avoid my flat & I would't want the few existing plane-free areas to be spoiled, but (until politicians give the green light to a more sensibly placed hub) the noise could be distributed better so that it's no longer a nuisance for anyone.

[peristalsis]

AnnetteCurtain Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Apologies all if this is something that has been

> thoroughly mauled over in the past. I'm new to the

> forum & actually live in Camberwell which may be

> affected worse.

There are several long threads.

Aircraft noise http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1345912

Aircraft noise http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,837871

etc

And at least one Annette Curtain

AnnetteCurtain http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/profile.php?5,102943

Annette Curtain http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/profile.php?20,25309

[GinaG3]

I'm a country girl, I've never lived under aircraft filled skies at all. No sirens in the countryside either (well, hardly) and now I'm living on the south circular! Imagine that shell shock! I must admit, I found it difficult for about a year when I first moved here but expected it and now I'm used to it. Even the police helicopter goes up the very second I seem to get in to bed at night around 3-4 times a week, so inconsiderate! Some of the planes are loud, I'll give you that, we get them coming over so low they almost feel like they are flying in to the living room or taking the roof off! Just got to live with it I think.

[AnnetteCurtain]

Yes, to a certain extent. But there is the potential for change on the table right now for the first time in nearly two decades. Things could go either way: either we share the noise more equably or a few (hundred thousand) of us get stuck with the lot. Signing this petition is one positive step we can take towards quieter skies:

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/fair-flights-paths-for-heathrow

[DollyDee]

Thank you AnnetteCurtain. Signed.

[Margot]

Just ignore those people who say the aircraft noise is inconsequential. It's driven me insane over the last few years. When we moved to Nunhead 15 years ago, it was so blissfully quiet like living in the country. It still is as we have no traffic. But the aircraft noise has increased exponentially over the last few years. I notice it all the time. I wake up in the morning and don't hear the birds sing, but the aeroplanes. I go for a walk in the park and all I can hear are aeroplanes - 4 in the sky at any time. There is no doubt we in East Dulwich are now on a substantial flight path and CAA regulations have been relaxed to allow planes to fly lower and more hours, so they start at 4am. I can see which airline they are which means they are pretty low in the sky. It's one of the reasons I want to move out of London so I can go for a walk and not hear aeroplanes.Well done for organising the petition.

[Mustard]

Margot,

What road are you in?

[DulwichFox]

Aircraft fly directly above my house. and I mean Directly above.

When indoors with my windows closed I do not hear them.

I have double glazing. Nothing special.

When in the garden in the summer the fly over my home but I hardly notice them.

They only time I hear them is the early morning flights in the summer when I have my

bedroom windows open and the air is still.

Cars up and down my road all night are MUCH more of a problem.

DulwichFox

[edcam]

Some people obsess over this and it bothers them. Most of us barely notice it. It's all about perception.

[fabfor]

Have we been conned? :http://politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/11/12/comment-how-we-ve-been-conned-into-believing-the-uk-has-an-a