Ed Warehouse (what's happening?)

[Mustard]

As far as I know both Ayre's and Kindred's make their own dough. I really like granary bread especially for toast and prefer Kindred's, but they usually sell out quickly.

I was expecting not to like the Asda bread, but found it pretty decent, especially for toast and if you are on a budget.

Another place to get interesting bread is the Turkish Food Centre on Camberwell New Road, next to Greek Orthodox church. Good place to stock up with beans and lentils etc. It helps if you have the use of a car. They also have decent pasta - 3 bags for one pound.

The Greek place is open until at least 10 pm 7 days a week, and I think the Turkish centre is until at least 8 pm.

[Seabag]

I've been using Ayres for years, but it isn't in the same league as the bread that the new people make

And even Ayres would admit this, but i'm not knocking Ayres or their ilk. However, there is room in the market for different levels of product. And on this one, it's a bit like comparing Keg to Craft Ale

What seems to irk the usual suspects is difference, as if this is a challenge or in someways undermines the fabric of the area, even though it's being run, funded and created by local people, who've worked their rear ends of thus far, to achieve their goal

Same old, same old, narrow mindedness and boring inverted snobbery

[rch]

Sorry about the delay in replying edhistory... the short answer to your question is that, no, the legislation hasn't changed, but the problem is enforcement.

I went through a long process last year with our helpful planning enforcement team about an A1 retail business in the Village which was causing loss of amenity to local residents who felt they were operating more as an A3 cafe. We couldn't take any direct enforcement action but by robustly querying the set up we ended up agreeing a compromise between the residents and the business, which shows that it's worth it for residents to stick together.

Basically, my understanding is that allegedly operations like Pret a Manger have created an interesting precedent in that they are considered retail A1 as long as the customer pays for the food at the till even when the customer then walks away from the till and subsequently consumes the food at a table that technically just happens to be within the premises.

Certain lower levels of hot food can be prepared on the premises as well, plus I think they can even get an alcohol license, which is the thin end of another wedge.

This is why I was saying earlier that the only way to control loss of local amenity is for residents to request that specific hours of operation that they feel comfortable with are clearly conditioned in the planning permission.

This business looks to me as if it is trying to do things correctly, but I would still recommend that everyone who lives nearby needs to get together and agree times of operation and then respond to the consultation citing these agreed times.

Robin

Twitter: @ex_cllr_rch

[edhistory]

Has the planning application disappeared from the Southwark Council web-site?

Normally withdrawn applications stay there.

[edhistory]

Reappeared over night.

ETA.

It looks like an overnight database update.

Case officer now appointed.

Some dates changed.

Target decision date 6 January 2015.

[worldwiser]

Ok, so I finally got over to Ayres and bought a sourdough. Delicious, no question. On a par with Brickhouse even. Me for a whopping 5p cheaper. A tray of 6 mince pies: a fiver. They're lovely too. But the idea that this place is offering cheaper, equivalent products to anyone else is just plain incorrect. They charge the same! So while recognising they're a very decent bakers, I'll continue to support the one that's closer. And let's hear no more about new businesses charging eye-watering prices when they're just charging the same as the more established ones.

[Mustard]

Who said Ayres is cheap or cheaper?

[Andricia]

I'm very excited about Brickhouse opening in ED. My husband and I often buy a Brickhouse sourdough from Franklins on a Saturday morning and enjoy it over the weekend. I don't consider it wasted money. The bread is absolutely top quality and so I don't grudge the cost at all. Good luck to them, a very welcome new addition to the area.

[worldwiser]

Well Mustard, the point was made (repeatedly) on here that anyone buying a ?4 loaf was wasting their money and that better value at more established local businesses could be found. This is patently not the case. Like for like, they have basically the same prices as everyone else. And, I might add, a bakery that has been around since the 50s hardly needs much additional support. So I'll gladly support the newcomer that's more convenient and I don't expect to be vilified for it!

[Louisa]

worldwiser, I would be interested if you could post the prices of the two identical loafs on here as I can't find a website for either business which publishes specific prices for products sold. I appreciate that you made the effort to try the Ayres bread, but I still fail to understand the logic behind someone saying they won't support an established local institution which according to you has the same quality bread, simply because the newcomer is marginally closer and needs the support more than the other. On the point of sourdough products, I cannot for the life of me appreciate the fad hipster breads and the prices charged across the board from whatever bakery, for them. I think it's fitting to say that businesses which have had the same products for generations and are still around today tend to offer good quality produce at reasonable prices that don't tinker too much with a successful formula. I of course wish the new bakery all the success it deserves and I will also try their products and report back with my honest verdict.

Louisa.

[DulwichFox]

As my diet restricts High GI foodstuffs. Bread is unfortunately on that list.

Sourdoughs are better and Lower GI. As are Whole Grain. (Not Wholemeal)

Unfortunately a whole loaf would last me 4-5 days.

Most craft breads are usually stale the day after purchase.

So at ?4.00 a time not financially viable for me.

I use Euphorium Bakery at Tesco Surrey Quays Large Sourdough @ ?2.90 which I think is a reasonable price to pay.

Even though there is some waste.

But generally I only go there once a week.

So will depend what price this new outlet charges..

DulwichFox

[KrackersMaracas]

I was walking by Franco manca's this weekend and noticed they also sell sourdough bread. A quarter loaf cost ?2 and I thought would last a couple of days. Size wise I think it was about the same size as half a large loaf from blackbird - and I think the pricing was broadly similar too.

I also struggle getting through a whole loaf so I tend to either buy it pre sliced or chop it up once I get home and put what I won't eat in the freezer for later.

[worldwiser]

Well, you've only to look at the eye-watering failure rate of startups to understand the perfect logic of wanting to favour my support towards a newbie. And that's not to say I'll never go to Ayres again - I thought it was lovely - but it's over a mile away and not on my way to anywhere I usually go either. Ayre's charge ?3.95 for a sourdough and Brick House is ?4 at Franklins although I've no idea what the price list will be at their new location. As for the rest of their loaves, they had about a dozen different types there and I didn't ask them.

[tracymcdavis]

On the rate that breads go stale...

I buy a loaf of BrickHouse white sourdough every Saturday morning from Andersons at, yes, I admit it, ?4 a loaf. I eat about 2 slices a day - so I am usually eating the last crust a week later for breakfast (just before heading out for my next loaf!) - and it is still as soft inside (and crusty outside) as the day I bought it.

I do keep it in a very nice bread bin though.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Orla Kiely?

"I do keep it in a very nice bread bin though"

[DulwichFox]

Generally most Craft Breads devoid of Preservatives will stay 'fresh' if kept in correct conditions for 2-3 days.

Bread has to have preservatives to last 6-7 days.

Preservatives will spoil the taste of bread. So it is the balance between Taste and Longevity.

DulwichFox

[david_carnell]

I agree with Tracy - my experience of Brick House breads suggest they keep very well indeed. 5 days no problems and toasts exceedingly well.

[Mustard]

The Poilane sourdough bread lasts at least 4 days, sometimes 5, and makes wonderful toast.

[Jeremy]

Yep. Brick House sourdough bought on Saturday still very good on Wednesday. After that... probably best for toast, but it's damn good toast!!

[Louisa]

Clearly few people are on the breadline if they can afford ?4 loafs.

I knew I had it in me to be mildly amusing.

Louisa.

[Mustard]

They work out cheaper than the crusty rolls sold by Ayres, and last longer.

[DulwichFox]

Bread ?4.00

Beer ?4.00

Anything else ??

DulwichFox

[Jeremy]

Big Mac Meal

[Louisa]

Large doner kebab.

Louisa.

[Seabag]

If you go to Herne Hill market on Sunday, I think you'll find 'the loaf in question' at under the ?4.00 threshold

But you'll have to go ALL THE WAY TO HERNE HILL

Life sucks sometimes