Consultation on ?improving? the junction of East Dulwich Grove, Townley Road and Green Dale

[intexasatthe moment]

Was there any discussion /clarification re the bike lane at last nights' DCC ?

[James Barber]

Irony is that the bordering private schools don't have proper covered cycle parking for staff or pupils but all wanted this junction made safer for cyclists and pedestrians.

[Tessmo]

@intexasatthemoment

At last night's Dulwich Community Council, Matt Hill, the Council officer, confirmed that the cycle lane currently painted on Townley Road with a dotted line will become a mandatory cycle lane with a solid line and a barrier separating it from the main flow of traffic once the Traffic Management Order has been signed off by the Cabinet member. The advance lights for cyclists in that lane, and the gate, will probably be added in stages after they have been trialled by TfL elsewhere. He said the delays were caused by a difference of opinion between TfL and the Department for Transport.

[intexasatthe moment]

Thanks Tessmo ,that's really helpful I don't suppose there were any details about what the barrier would consist of ?

[trinity]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Irony is that the bordering private schools don't

> have proper covered cycle parking for staff or

> pupils but all wanted this junction made safer for

> cyclists and pedestrians.

Jags/Japs does have proper covered parking for bikes.

[Tessmo]

@intexasatthemoment

Matt Hill didn't say what the barrier would consist of. On the plan attached to the traffic management order, it's described as "Proposed 10.5m x 0.6m cycle lane segregation island to be installed, offset 1.5m from the adjacent proposed kerbline". I don't know if that's still the plan.

[edhistory]

I came across this document by accident:

Sight Line

Designing Better Streets for People with Low Vision

by Ross Atkin

It's available for download as a free pdf.

It has a section on designing road junctions that are more helpful and safer for blind and partially sighted pedestrians.

It seems to me that design features that might do this have been removed from the junction in favour of yet to be completed changes that will benefit cyclists.

In all the paperwork did anyone see what appears to be the legally mandatory disability impact assessment?

I'd like to read it.

Is there an EDF member who knows about this subject?

John K

[fazer71]

There really should be a very big lane for the gravy train.

[Zebedee Tring]

What did Matt Hill have to say about the problems that coaches are having turning left into EDG?

[James Barber]

I spoke to some children today who use this junction. They think it a vast improvement for them. They're walking rather than cycling but still this is some good news from all that money being spent.

[BrandNewGuy]

Well, let's keep proper monitoring of all road users, rather than ask a few children and conclude that ?200K+ was well spent. As with Melbourne Grove, anecdotal doesn't trump all other sorts of evidence.

[edhistory]

Were the chidren East Dulwich children?

[BrandNewGuy]

Well, he said they walked, so I assume so. So were they driven before now because of the dangers of the junction?

[edhistory]

I was wondering whether these were Dulwich Village children.

Or commuters from North Dulwich station.

I don't think it was ever established whether Alleyn's or James Allen's have many local pupils.

[nxjen]

Edited as may have jumped to wrong conclusion.

[tomdhu]

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think it was ever established whether

> Alleyn's or James Allen's have many local pupils.

EDH,

We live on East Dulwich Grove and our two lads attend Alleyns, having previously attended DVI and Hamlet. How much more local do you want to get?

Tom

[skylorikeet]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, he said they walked, so I assume so. So were

> they driven before now because of the dangers of

> the junction?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the changes to the junction have not changed the travelling habits of any of the school children using it, except insofar as the removal of the barriers make it a nicer experience to cross the road here. I'd be astonished if there are people who used to drive who are now walking because of the work done.

[Tessmo]

Talk to Doug the lollipop man about whether he thinks the junction is safer for children.

[Zebedee Tring]

But what about the coaches turning left into EDG? That was a problem the other day. Has that been resolved?

[BrandNewGuy]

tomdhu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edhistory Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I don't think it was ever established whether

> > Alleyn's or James Allen's have many local

> pupils.

>

>

> EDH,

>

> We live on East Dulwich Grove and our two lads

> attend Alleyns, having previously attended DVI and

> Hamlet. How much more local do you want to get?

>

> Tom

That seems a rather snippy reply to a perfectly fair question. Without that sort of information about pupils' journeys (as well as staff), it makes it difficult for anyone to judge changes and improvements.

[ed_pete]

Going back the original Southwark consultation which stated:

"The key aim of the proposals is to significantly improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians at the junction, whilst ensuring that there is no adverse delay to traffic on East Dulwich Grove."

If a couple of children have said that they think its an improvement and my own have said the same. That's good then isn't it ? And that's all it is. No one is trying to use this as justification for whole exercise. No one was ever said that less children will be driven because of changes to junction.

Jeez.

[BrandNewGuy]

ed_pete Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No one was ever said that less

> children will be driven because of changes to

> junction.

Yes, that is one of the aims of the cycling campaign and one of the reasons for the extra funding, to encourage children to move from cars/coaches to cycling. And I didn't say it wasn't good that the children asked liked it. I suggested that it was only a small part of how the changes should be judged.

[ed_pete]

Fair point and I?m aware that it?s Mayoral policy to increase cycling in London generally. Hopefully the alterations to this junction will help in that regard though I doubt the change is likely to take effect overnight.

[Scootingover]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I spoke to some children today who use this

> junction. They think it a vast improvement for

> them. They're walking rather than cycling but

> still this is some good news from all that money

> being spent.

So what about speaking with any adults, making any independent and objective observations, speaking to the lollipop guy who knows the junction inside out etc.

Let's get some facts on the operation of the junction and stop these ineffectual interjections.

[edhistory]

tomdhu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> edhistory Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I don't think it was ever established whether

> > Alleyn's or James Allen's have many local

> pupils.

>

>

> EDH,

>

> We live on East Dulwich Grove and our two lads

> attend Alleyns, having previously attended DVI and

> Hamlet. How much more local do you want to get?

>

> Tom

Thanks, Tom.

That's 2 children out of c985 who will not be using the new pedestrian crossing.

John K