Jump to content

Recommended Posts



this doesn't make any sense to me. Regardless of what class I am, how am I not being served? If you are talking about the number of wanky shops then most of us can agree with that. But given the shop units are basically too small to accomodate the types of stores one sees in, dear god, the Glades.. what are people missing out on?


I can buy cheap shoes, cheap haircuts, cheap food, cheap music, cheap books


But it's arrogant to assume working-class people don't want quality either. Those options are also available.


How, exactly, are working-class people deprived in ED compared with anywhere else??


It's a nonsense statement

Sean, working class people want variety just as everyone else does, but considering this particular thread is about the ridiculous words of a politician, my comments about the lack of variety along LL and the damage this does to the deprived communities who cannot afford to shop in the likes of JoJomamanbebe et al are what particuarly concern me. At least in places like the Walworth Road and Camberwell the shops are more reflective of the local population and go some way to serving the vast majority of the community. Here in ED the reverse is apparant. Someone on a restricted income who cannot or will not travel far has limited resources in ED compared to other parts of Southwark. Why is it when higher income brackets decide its ok to move postcode the shops can move with them and the effect this has on the settled population is not considered. Harman obviously thinks because 20 or 30% of ED is now relatively wealthy, the working classes should be neglected because there are even more poor people down in Walworth and Camberwell. It seems just the most ridiculous thing to say?. Surely this deprives settled populations of something? Why should I have to travel all the way to Bromley just because the likes of White Stuff and other overpriced places want to move in and restrict my shopping choices? I agree LL cannot accomodate big stores, but Peckham equally restricts a huge chunk of the population too.


Huguenot, obviously not you eh?


Louisa.

Why is not being able to shop at JoJomamanbebe depriving anyone? I thought proper working class people passed clothes on - at least they did when i were a lad...


Shops aren't a service of the council. They follow the money. I have lived in poor white working class areas when I had no money. And I lived in well to do areas when I had no money. You'll just have to believe me when I say that lots of people with no money don't like living in run down areas just because the shops cater for the low-incomed. There are people as we speak who are planning to get the hell out of Ilfracombe et al and live on nothing but beans for 5 years so long as it doesn't mean staying another week in a run-down, lifeless, low-expectations deadsville. It's not the paradise you claim it to be (and yes before you say you never claimed it was a paradise, I'm speaking relatively)


Anyway, shouldn't you be getting ready and bringing your purse - you have a drink to buy in about an hours time

I think Louisa is right in this instance. I cannot get most of what I need and want in East Dulwich, and I have to shop in Clapham and Peckham to buy appropriate things ie. clothes (there are no clothes shops in ED I would EVER buy from e.g. ED, the White Stuff, Dr Boo). I need more practical shops like a department store, some high street shops (God forbid) even.


It is not so much that I can't afford shops like JoJomama (whatever it is called), but I would never shop in a place like that, nor any of the nick nack shops in Northcross Rd and LL.

Her remarks seem to echo the politics of envy and this from probably one of the most middle class cabinet ministers. She's almost as posh as David Cameron. Cor blimey, apples and pears, knees up mother brown etc etc.


God when I was a teenager East Dulwich was proper working class it's changed a bit but what?s wrong with that? Places change and so do people. I think that socialists generally have this over romantic image of the working classes, horny handed sons of toil. The reality is that the Labour party after the war did what the Tesco heiress tried to do in Westminster. They built massive working class estates to cement their vote in London. HH is worried that they are losing support (can't think why!) in traditional Labour voting areas. So is playing the class card. Bearing in mind her background this is the ultimate hypocrisy. Mind you I always admire a politician with the courage of their contradictions.

EDOldie, I entirely agree about Harman, she angers me so because to me she reflects the greed and neglect of morality that seems to have become the Labour party post Tony Blair. Just as Lord Mandleson's words further infuriated the core vote by suggesting to working people that it was in some way selfish of them to not want local people to be able to compete fairly for jobs, whilst this man seems to have made his fortune from the EU. Total hypocrite in my eyes and is it any wonder so many Labour voters are turning their backs on the party. Harman to me seems very disingenuous with her timing on these comments, and indeed her motive behind the timing also seems a little suspect. Whereas some MP's such as Diana Abbott have fought their corner for what they believe to be right since becoming MP's all those years ago, people like Harman seem hell bent on backing the cabinet at all costs. I find it offensive and an isult to the intelligence of the electorate.


Louisa.

Good point Kristymac - these days, its Notworking Class = poor.

"Notworking Class" is a new class created by the current government and the US/UK banking crisis. These people have gone from Middle Class (middle income professionals) to "Notworking Class" by losing their jobs, without stopping at working class along the way. This is hero to zero territory, for those who have lost well paid jobs in the financial sector.


Those who currently retain jobs in the financial or banking sector currently reside temporarily in "Shitting themselves class" from where a flight to Notworking class does not feel very far away.


Niether place is a good place to be. One has no money, the other has money, but no longer feels able to enjoy/spend any of it. Its not a good time for anyone, and to be honest what class you are does not matter an awful lot, and never did.

Harman is a hypocrite. She wants comprehension for us and private schools for her children. The first thing she did when they came to power was to cut benefits to single mothers. There is nothing socialist about the woman or her party. Diane Abbot attacked Blair for sending his child to The London Oratory shortly before it was time to choose a comprehensive for her son, but she couldn?t find one so had to send her child to a private school. They are all hypocrites and make me to throw up.

Lousia I've searched the quote, but can't find the word 'class'. That one's yours I think?


It's a great thing that I didn't 'bate my breath waiting for your recommendations, because you continue to fail the readers of the forum in delivering your list of desirable local stores.


You wade into the East Dulwich commercial menagerie like a drunken six year old in an end of term lego display, flashing your teddy bear like a baseball bat. There'll be nothing to show for it but lonely tears and an empty assembly hall; the kids have moved to the party next door.


Come on, grace us with your vision. In the urban wasteland that is the first achievement of Louisa townplanner, which stores will you welcome with preferential tax rates?


[For the uninitiated observer this challenge may seem unnecessary, but I assure you that Lousia, whilst charming, is the most graceless of contributors. Her creative thinking is limited to a list of her criticisms. If she wasn't borrowing a cup of sugar, she'd be sh*tting on your doorstep.]

For an authoritative position on poverty and the current situation reading the following link is interesting.


CSJ Report


One of the most serious points (page 7 of the report) is that current government policies have moved funds & benefits from the very (severe poverty) poor to those on the border line of the defining income median. Thus by moving a large number of people from just below the 60% of median earnings line to just over it the government can claim to have lifted many "out of poverty". However, this has been achieved at the expense of those so far down the scale as to be impossible to "lift out of poverty" with little, if any, additional cost to government - making the government rhetoric empty and hypocritical.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • The is very low water pressure in the middle of Friern Road this morning.
    • I think mostly those are related to the same "issues". In my experience, it's difficult using the pin when reporting problems, especially if you're on a mobile... There's two obvious leaks in that stretch and has been for sometime one of them apparently being sewer flooding 😱  
    • BBC Homepage Skip to content Accessibility Help EFor you Notifications More menu Search BBC                     BBC News Menu   UK England N. Ireland Scotland Alba Wales Cymru Isle of Man Guernsey Jersey Local News Vets under corporate pressure to increase revenue, BBC told   Image source,Getty Images ByRichard Bilton, BBC Panorama and Ben Milne, BBC News Published 2 hours ago Vets have told BBC Panorama they feel under increasing pressure to make money for the big companies that employ them - and worry about the costly financial impact on pet owners. Prices charged by UK vets rose by 63% between 2016 and 2023, external, and the government's competition regulator has questioned whether the pet-care market - as it stands - is giving customers value for money. One anonymous vet, who works for the UK's largest vet care provider, IVC Evidensia, said that the company has introduced a new monitoring system that could encourage vets to offer pet owners costly tests and treatment options. A spokesperson for IVC told Panorama: "The group's vets and vet nurses never prioritise revenue or transaction value over and above the welfare of the animal in their care." More than half of all UK households are thought to own a pet, external. Over the past few months, hundreds of pet owners have contacted BBC Your Voice with concerns about vet bills. One person said they had paid £5,600 for 18 hours of vet-care for their pet: "I would have paid anything to save him but felt afterwards we had been taken advantage of." Another described how their dog had undergone numerous blood tests and scans: "At the end of the treatment we were none the wiser about her illness and we were presented with a bill of £13,000."   Image caption, UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024, according to the CMA Mounting concerns over whether pet owners are receiving a fair deal prompted a formal investigation by government watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). In a provisional report, external at the end of last year, it identified several issues: Whether vet companies are being transparent about the ownership of individual practices and whether pet owners have enough information about pricing The concentration of vet practices and clinics in the hands of six companies - these now control 60% of the UK's pet-care market Whether this concentration has led to less market competition and allowed some vet care companies to make excess profits 'Hitting targets' A vet, who leads one of IVC's surgeries (and who does not want to be identified because they fear they could lose their job), has shared a new internal document with Panorama. The document uses a colour code to compare the company's UK-wide tests and treatment options and states that it is intended to help staff improve clinical care. It lists key performance indicators in categories that include average sales per patient, X-rays, ultrasound and lab tests. The vet is worried about the new policy: "We will have meetings every month, where one of the area teams will ask you how many blood tests, X-rays and ultrasounds you're doing." If a category is marked in green on the chart, the clinic would be judged to be among the company's top 25% of achievers in the UK. A red mark, on the other hand, would mean the clinic was in the bottom 25%. If this happens, the vet says, it might be asked to come up with a plan of action. The vet says this would create pressure to "upsell" services. Panorama: Why are vet bills so high? Are people being priced out of pet ownership by soaring bills? Watch on BBC iPlayer now or BBC One at 20:00 on Monday 12 January (22:40 in Northern Ireland) Watch on iPlayer For instance, the vet says, under the new model, IVC would prefer any animal with suspected osteoarthritis to potentially be X-rayed. With sedation, that could add £700 to a bill. While X-rays are sometimes necessary, the vet says, the signs of osteoarthritis - the thickening of joints, for instance - could be obvious to an experienced vet, who might prefer to prescribe a less expensive anti-inflammatory treatment. "Vets shouldn't have pressure to do an X-ray because it would play into whether they are getting green on the care framework for their clinic." IVC has told Panorama it is extremely proud of the work its clinical teams do and the data it collects is to "identify and close gaps in care for our patients". It says its vets have "clinical independence", and that prioritising revenue over care would be against the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons' (RCVS) code and IVC policy. Vets say they are under pressure to bring in more money per pet   Published 15 April 2025 Vets should be made to publish prices, watchdog says   Published 15 October 2025 The vet says a drive to increase revenue is undermining his profession. Panorama spoke to more than 30 vets in total who are currently working, or have worked, for some of the large veterinary groups. One recalls being told that not enough blood tests were being taken: "We were pushed to do more. I hated opening emails." Another says that when their small practice was sold to a large company, "it was crazy... It was all about hitting targets". Not all the big companies set targets or monitor staff in this way. The high cost of treatment UK pet owners spent £6.3bn on vet and other pet-care services in 2024 - equal to just over £365 per pet-owning household, according to the CMA. However, most pet owners in the UK do not have insurance, and bills can leave less-well-off families feeling helpless when treatment is needed. Many vets used not to display prices and pet owners often had no clear idea of what treatment would cost, but in the past two years that has improved, according to the CMA. Rob Jones has told Panorama that when his family dog, Betty, fell ill during the autumn of 2024 they took her to an emergency treatment centre, Vets Now, and she underwent an operation that cost almost £5,000. Twelve days later, Betty was still unwell, and Rob says he was advised that she could have a serious infection. He was told a diagnosis - and another operation - would cost between £5,000-£8,000.   Image caption, Betty's owners were told an operation on her would cost £12,000 However, on the morning of the operation, Rob was told this price had risen to £12,000. When he complained, he was quoted a new figure - £10,000. "That was the absolute point where I lost faith in them," he says. "It was like, I don't believe that you've got our interests or Betty's interests at heart." The family decided to put Betty to sleep. Rob did not know at the time that both his local vet, and the emergency centre, branded Vets Now, where Betty was treated, were both owned by the same company - IVC. He was happy with the treatment but complained about the sudden price increase and later received an apology from Vets Now. It offered him £3,755.59 as a "goodwill gesture".   Image caption, Rob Jones says he lost faith in the vets treating his pet dog Betty Vets Now told us its staff care passionately for the animals they treat: "In complex cases, prices can vary depending on what the vet discovers during a consultation, during the treatment, and depending on how the patient responds. "We have reviewed our processes and implemented a number of changes to ensure that conversations about pricing are as clear as possible." Value for money? Independent vet practices have been a popular acquisition for corporate investors in recent years, according to Dr David Reader from the University of Glasgow. He has made a detailed study of the industry. Pet care has been seen as attractive, he says, because of the opportunities "to find efficiencies, to consolidate, set up regional hubs, but also to maximise profits". Six large veterinary groups (sometimes referred to as LVGs) now control 60% of the UK pet care market - up from 10% a decade ago, according to the CMA, external. They are: Linnaeus, which owns 180 practices Medivet, which has 363 Vet Partners with 375 practices CVS Group, which has 387 practices Pets at Home, which has 445 practices under the name Vets for Pets IVC Evidensia, which has 900 practices When the CMA announced its provisional findings last autumn, it said there was not enough competition or informed choice in the market. It estimated the combined cost of this to UK pet owners amounted to £900m between 2020-2024. Corporate vets dispute the £900m figure. They say their prices are competitive and made freely available, and reflect their huge investment in the industry, not to mention rising costs, particularly of drugs. The corporate vets also say customers value their services highly and that they comply with the RCVS guidelines.   Image caption, A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with the service they receive from vets A CMA survey suggests pet owners are happy with their vets - both corporate and independent - when it comes to quality of service. But, with the exception of Pets at Home, customer satisfaction on cost is much lower for the big companies. "I think that large veterinary corporations, particularly where they're owned by private equity companies, are more concerned about profits than professionals who own veterinary businesses," says Suzy Hudson-Cooke from the British Veterinary Union, which is part of Unite. Proposals for change The CMA's final report on the vet industry is expected by the spring but no date has been set for publication. In its provisional report, it proposed improved transparency on pricing and vet ownership. Companies would have to reveal if vet practices were part of a chain, and whether they had business connections with hospitals, out-of-hours surgeries, online pharmacies and even crematoria. IVC, CVS and Vet Partners all have connected businesses and would have to be more transparent about their services in the future. Pets at Home does not buy practices - it works in partnership with individual vets, as does Medivet. These companies have consistently made clear in their branding who owns their practices. The big companies say they support moves to make the industry more transparent so long as they don't put too high a burden on vets. David Reader says the CMA proposals could have gone further. "There's good reason to think that once this investigation is concluded, some of the larger veterinary groups will continue with their acquisition strategies." The CMA says its proposals would "improve competition by helping pet owners choose the right vet, the right treatment, and the right way to buy medicine - without confusion or unnecessary cost". For Rob Jones, however, it is probably too late. "I honestly wouldn't get another pet," he says. "I think it's so expensive now and the risk financially is so great.             Food Terms of Use About the BBC Privacy Policy Cookies Accessibility Help Parental Guidance Contact the BBC Make an editorial complaint BBC emails for you Copyright © 2026 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read about our approach to external linking.
    • What does the area with the blue dotted lines and the crossed out water drop mean? No water in this area? So many leaks in the area.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...