I love grappling

[LadyDeliah]

I started grappling (ju-jitsu) classes earlier in the year in an MMA club after years of taekwondo and it's bloody brilliant.

I have had a big gap in training because I've been insanely busy doing stuff with work, but I went back last night and we learned two new choke holds, the Peruvian Necktie

and the Ninja Choke

.

Totally awesome moves and I'm so enthused I felt the need to share!!!

Anyone fancy being my practice dummy?? lol

[Robert Poste's Child]

I'm not volunteering, but it does look like fun. Are you allowed to cover yourself in oil first?

[LadyDeliah]

Lol, not my thing, but I'm sure you could find an oily training partner to roll around with if you advertise on the right sites :-)

And yes, it's enormous fun. I'm totally hooked.

[holloway]

i did a mixed martial arts class at dulwich hamlet a while back. found myself in the missionary position with a bloke who had 'love' and 'hate' tatooed on his knuckles. didn't go back.

[LadyDeliah]

The guys I train with are really cool. There are quite a few women in the classes too. Don't let one guy put you off. It's really good exercise and the skills are always good to know.

[holloway]

he was actualy a nice bloke as were the other lads, you're right. just found the whole thing a bit too intimate, prefer boxing now.

[LadyDeliah]

Yes, it's a bit weird getting so physically close to strange guys at first, but the strangeness of it passes, as does the claustrophobia when you are held in a confined position.

It's totally different from the martial arts I've done all my life, but I'm loving learning completely new skills and as most fights end up on the floor, I think they are good skills to learn.

[Jeremy]

Depends on your reason for doing it, I suppose. Taekwondo or boxing are probably better for aerobic fitness. Jiu-jitsu/MMA undoubtedly more valuable for self defence!

[LadyDeliah]

I thought that grappling would be easy aerobically; bollox it is!

When you are sparring, it is really hard. You use every part of your body and get just as breathless as when you do taekwondo or boxing. I hadn't expected that to be the case before I started.

[Jeremy]

Interesting. Does the training include lots of fitness drills, the same as say boxing would?

[nashoi]

Jeremy think back to the seventies and the ultimate test of human physicality in history, namely Superstars. Brian Jacks, judo player was a Superstars legend whereas every boxer on the show was hopeless.

[LadyDeliah]

We do a circuit first, but they have separate circuit classes too. My overall strength & fitness started getting pretty good on just two grappling classes a week plus my normal cycling.

[KidKruger]

The intensity of exercise from groundwork is probably not obvious, great for core strength and stamina.

Some of those top jujitsu guys are like magicians when they get someone down to the ground, the way they tie you up and exploit the mechanics of the human physiology. The extended pain when subjected to a hold or fold is somehow more humbling than a quick strike like a punch or kick and the potential damage possible can be very long lasting.

Mr Lager Lout's in serious trouble if he picks on one of these guys !

[Jeremy]

nashoi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy think back to the seventies and the

> ultimate test of human physicality in history,

> namely Superstars. Brian Jacks, judo player was a

> Superstars legend whereas every boxer on the show

> was hopeless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars#United_States_Superstars

However, it was heavyweight champion boxer Joe Frazier who nearly stole the show. In the very first event, the 50 meter swimming heats, Frazier nearly drowned, and only after he was retrieved from the pool did he admit to commentators that he didn't know how to swim. When a reporter asked him why he tried the race, Frazier replied, "How was I to know I couldn't unless I tried it?"

[LadyDeliah]

Kk, that's so true. It is incredibly intense exercise. I imagined I was taking something up that I could slow down with as I get oldwr, but it's more intense than what I was doing before.

I love the choke holds. Knowing dozens of ways to render someone unconscious in 30 seconds makes me happier than it probably ought to lol.

[KidKruger]

Well if speed to make someone unconscious is your thing it might be worth focusing on strikes to the jaw because that's instantaneous...

[katanita]

Is that definitely for real true? I learnt that from one karate instructor, but others have always said to aim more for the centre of the face, which seems more likely to break a nose and make someone more angry than make them stop. So I've often wondered why we weren't taught to aim for the jaw if it's more likely to be a knockout punch. If it is a knockout, though, I'd be scared of really causing serious injury or worse if when they fall. Which is why fighting should always be an absolute last resort, of course, it's not as predictable or controllable irl as martial arts training can sometimes make out.

I like the idea of learning some grappling though, not something you get into in karate much even though some of the kata moves are really holds etc. Is it something you think you could pick up some useful stuff from a few lessons? Or something you'd need to train for years in to get anywhere?

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well if speed to make someone unconscious is your

> thing it might be worth focusing on strikes to the

> jaw because that's instantaneous...

[LadyDeliah]

Striking the face anywhere can cause more damage than you might want and you have to be sure you'll hit them correctly. Saying that, I have downed Simone in a real fight years ago with a punch to the jaw and they went down like a sack of spuds.

I just think choke holds are more about controlling the other person without having to risk breaking anything on you or them.

I've used the sleeper (rear naked choke) in a real situation too and it was totally effective. Again this was years ago, when where I was living, fights were regular occurrences.

Some of the skills in ju-jitsu are simple to learn but I think its more about getting as wide a repetoir as possible so when you see an opportunity, you have a technique available to use and that can only come with practice, especially sparring.

[KidKruger]

"Is that definitely for real true? I learnt that from one karate instructor, but others have always said to aim more for the centre of the face, which seems more likely to break a nose and make someone more angry than make them stop. So I've often wondered why we weren't taught to aim for the jaw if it's more likely to be a knockout punch. If it is a knockout, though, I'd be scared of really causing serious injury or worse if when they fall. Which is why fighting should always be an absolute last resort, of course, it's not as predictable or controllable irl as martial arts training can sometimes make out. "

Katanita - I was just joshing because LD came over as a fan of quick KO's. But the jaw blow does usually slow-down the action, problem is it's a very small fast moving target which may be difficult to hit (and waste time trying) cleanly.

I studied GoJu Ryu for years in what was considered a 'dirty' club and during Kumite there were always injuries, no mats to practice on and even if you learnt zero technique you did learn how to take a beating, which is actually useful because most of us don't fight regularly and it's a real shocker getting whacked, for anybody, including those who've trained to hit but never been hit themselves.

Our Sensei emphasised fighting as a last resort, but horrible techniques if you're forced to.

Problem with aiming to just cause pain or damage is that although it usually puts most opponents off fighting, there are some nutters (or extremely hard people) that will just grin / continue coming until they're physically disabled to the point they cannot continue.

I think you have to be a bit of an ace to pick and choose techniques to delay / injure (but not damage) / destroy an opponent at will depending on the situation, because it all happens so quick when it kicks off - so avoidance is best approach, followed by showstoppers if you're forced to fight, either to buy yourself time to get away / get help or to shut them down. You risk your health trying to use 'reasonable force' on someone who's intent on hurting you !

[Jeremy]

Yeah I agree... avoidance first, then if you have to fight, render them immobile as quickly as possible! (not that I'd fancy my chances of succeeding, you understand)

When I used to do Wing Chun, the instructor was a big fan of kicks/stamps to the knees, chops to the throat, fingers in the eyes, jamming your thumb into the trachea, etc. Then get the hell out of there!

[LadyDeliah]

I agree, getting hit is something you need to have happen before you will really know how you will react. I loved tkd competitions for that and when we did them in the 1990's they were full contact fairly brutal affairs, but you learn how to deal with the adrenaline surge you get when you are about to compete and when you get a kick to the head.

I'm sounding like to total psycho now, but I've just always loved martial arts and had a lot of fights growing up.

[Robert Poste's Child]

You do sound a little scary, but I'm saying it in a respectful kind of way. I know I'd be useless in a fight situation but I admire women who can take care of themselves if they have to.

[Seabag]

I did competitive Judo into my early 20's. I satrted at 6/7 whilst at boarding school, it was that or boxing. And I didn't like the idea of a punch straight in the face, as a sport

The full contact part is a buzz indeed, and getting stuck in is a good way of growing your courage

I did make a foray back into it, sometime ago. But having injured both shoulders climbing, it wasn't going to happen without messing me up (probably for good). Which was such a shame, as there's a Judo club in Rotherhite with an older geezers sparring class

That said, i'm a little wary of 'chokes and choke holds', they work, but can be dangerous. Though i've always been facinated by the effectiveness of locks and lock holds

It's a niche subject I know, but self defence & martial arts when parcticed well and over a long period, does/can change your life. Personally, it comes (the calm) from within and disapates the fear of confrontation and fights. It pretty much saved me from a very nasty incident, where I was lucky to come away with 28 stitches to my face and head (and no, I don't look like Boris Karloff, thanks to a Maxilio Facial surgeon)

Good luck to you Lady D, it's a strangely personal journey. I still go and watch the events a Crystal palace, when I can. The different styles from around the world are often great (and sometimes tedious) to watch

[Jah Lush]

Edited because I soon came to realise what I'd written was a load of old waffle unrelated to the original subject.