unhelpful barman in east dulwich (Lounged)

[Villager]

Huguenot Wrote:

>

> From your description, you've decided that this

> was racist with no greater evidence than the

> colour of the hapless customer's skin. This is not

> nearly sufficient to make such an outrageous

> accusation. It's as puerile as Ali G - "Is it coz

> I is..'.

>

> It's equally plausible that the bar was reserved

> throughout: it's a highly popular destination for

> lunch, or that the unhelpful bar staff were simply

> negligent or poor at their job.

> Kuntama, for someone who seeks 'a compassionate

> and meaningful existence', making unsupported

> accusations of racism on a local forum is likely

> to put you considerably further from your

> objective. Frankly, allying with becks is likely

> to put your cause back much faster than witless

> bar staff.

>

> In fact, it's unnecessary sh*t-stirring.

>

> Go and look up hypocrisy ;-)

Spot on Huguenot and eloquently put too.

[Huggers]

''weak possibility'' Kuntama?in your original post you said it was your first thought and then you said it was your reluctant conclusion.

Then you brought in the other 'unhelpful' patrons who failed to point out to the woman that there were tables outside. Were they meant to be secretly racist too? Maybe they were just busy enjoying their lunch/drink. Why was it their responsibility to do so? why couldnt she see for herself.

When I was a young woman, the most irritating men were the ones who proffessed to be feminists and who were always being outraged and offended on my behalf. Actually they were just trying to reinforce my 'weakness' and 'inferiority' and trying to get their leg over.

[kuntama]

I give up getting any kind of sense from ALL of you. This feels like a school playground. "Nanaananana- it doesn't matter what you say or how much you deny, we know what we know"

No bloody wonder, race is not discussed rationally in this country.

What's wrong with a discussion about the possibilities? What's wrong if it does exist?

As I keep saying, it's clearly far too sensitive an issue.

Nuff said

[tomdhu]

kuntama Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I give up getting any kind of sense from ALL of

> you.

Lot's of people responded to you after you asked for their take on the situation. All but one saw it different to you. Surely that ought to tell you something? If it doesn't then you are a rather sad person.

[Huggers]

School playground? you wrote this last night 'I really didn't think arseholes like him could exist beyond chav areas ....Honestly! At this precise moment I am pissing myself with laughter. Especially as that particular barman presented as a physically revolting speciman of humanity- unkempt, smelly, poor diction etc etc etc.'' actually, not just playground but pretty slanderous.

and then...

''I really think people need to get off their high horses and actually LIVE COMPASSIONATE AND MEANINGFUL EXISTENCES. ''-but giving energy to the darkness of your imaginings is negative energy, imagining the worst in people is in itself biggotted. You were making all sorts of assumptions about the barman based on his appearance.

You may say 'nah nah nah' when we counteract your arguments with actually some dialectic debate and then you decide we are not prepared to discuss this possibility, but that's just your intellectual cowardice .

Perhaps in medieval times you would encourage your neighbours to discuss the possibility of some poor sod being a witch.

When I read you post last night I thought it was incredibly nasty but thought that might be the beers I had had and decided to wait for the clear light of day to answer.

[andymat]

No need for personal attacks. I just suggested that your language regarding colour was highly offensive and somewhat out of the 1950s. I'm not actually sure what you meant but if I heard anyone say that out loud I'd certainly say something.

Racism is racism. As for the "not a racist bone in my body"....

[Huggers]

if you meant me Andy, I was just quoting the original posters post,

[andymat]

I was referring to the original post huggers. (tu)

[kuntama]

At the risk of continuing an argument that is going absolutely nowhere, LET ME ASK AGAIN:

Could this have been a racist incident?

The fact that few are prepared to answer YES IT IS A POSSIBILITY BUT UNLIKELY is interesting - unlike Becks, the first respondant.

Most are answering NO. NEVER. WHAT AN OUTRAGEOUS THOGHT. HOW DARE I. WHY SHOULD I. HOW INSULTING, ETC. ETC.

AGAIN YES THE EVIDENCE IS SLIM/LOW/WHATEVER.

But its's a possibility? At this stage note that my voice is getting smaller- I just don't know how to decrease the size of typing?(6):'(B):-S:-$B)

[????]

Oh give it a rest and also look at your own prejudices about chavs, class, looks, diction....actually just let it lie

[FrustratedLawyer]

In answer; UNLIKELY. The only way to know either way is to interrogate the barman himself and not to canvass speculation from utter unconnected strangers on an internet forum.

[Ants]

pubs are for grown-ups, not kids.

[kuntama]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh give it a rest and also look at your own

> prejudices about chavs, class, looks,

> diction....actually just let it lie

Alright already. I agree. I am. I will!!!

[Mikecg]

Come on Ants, what's wrong with popping into the local with the kids for a swift half on a Saturday afternoon. that's why they banned smoking so that they could promote family atmospheres. I know some places where I wouldn't be seen dead in let alone let my kids run around the place. I do think that because things have changed, they are looking at new ways to bring in customers.

[Ants]

Because it's a pub. Not playcentre!

[Mikecg]

Ban smoking that's what they wanted, now that's what we are stuck with, It's true, at least when smoking was going on the yuppie parents we get in the pubs now were reluctant to expose their little cherubs to smoke filled pubs full of working men enjoying a pint and a smoke after a hard days graft.

[dulwichmum]

Mikecg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "that's why they banned smoking so that

> they could promote family atmospheres".

OHMYGOD! What planet are you from? The ban on smoking in pubs is part of a public health initiative, not a move on behalf of pubs to reach out to families. Have you read any of the figures on cancers caused by smoking and the cost of associated healthcare provision to the tax-payer?

Will you think that if Gordon Brown puts an extra tax on alcohol in pubs that it is because he is trying to help landlords go upmarket and appeal to more wealthy patrons?

[Mikecg]

F*ck Europe with a Capital F. and GB can go kiss my ass, the mans about as convincing as an imaginary imagineir who posts an imaginary life on a Forum.

[Mikecg]

The amount of tax I've paid gordon, will pay for my treatment, and as I have said before I don't intend to wear nappies a second time.

[Administrator]

Time to move this to the Lounge area as it has gone off topic and is no longer East Dulwich specific.

[kuntama]

-- moved topic --

[andymat]

What I'm most upset about (apart from the casual racism) is that someone was being UN-HELPFUL! Simply not on in a place like ED.

[northlondoner]

K are we talking about the Palmerston? If so i've never had a problem there....apart from the prices, which can be a bit steep. But still, lovely grub. If it's the Bishop, again, no problem there....apart from the overly friendly,occasionally drooling pub dog.

[northlondoner]

Hey green goose I did NOT backtrack. Read the post. Try to keep up.

[The Palmerston]

kuntama Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi. I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this

> event I witnessed today.

> I'd just wandered into a pub opposite the

> postoffice on Lordship Lane. A lady with her two

> little children came in and asked if there were

> any unreserved tables. The pathetic excuse of a

> human being behind the bar, told her there were

> none and then wouldn't accomodate her by moving a

> few chairs or tables around.

> This occurred just after midday today.

> The first thought that occured to me was their

> faces didn't quite fit - I mean colour-wise.

> However, I'm keen for people to disabuse me of

> this notion as I really really would like to give

> this idiot of a barman the benefit of the doubt.

> Interestingly, none of the other patrons (some

> with children) bothered to tell her there were

> seats outside - which I discovered after ordering

> my drinks.

> I feel rather disppointed and let down by a

> gnawing suspicion that I had witnessed overt

> racism.

> Come on guys, disabuse me.

> xx

Hi.

This message has just been brought to my attention and I felt that I must address it as the allegation you make is a serious one that we do not take lightly.

Clearly the pub you are referring to is The Palmerston. I honestly feel that you are way off the mark with any suggestion of racism. I'd like to point out that in our current employment we have staff from the following countries outside of the UK: Italy, Brazil, Mali, Hungary, New Zealand and The Ivory Coast and in the past we have employed people from just about every corner of the world. Racism simply would not be accepted at our establishment.

As for Saturday the 21st of February:

We had a party of 38 people who had booked our entire rear dining room from 1pm to 4pm. We were fully booked in our front dining room with a table of 4 another table of 3 another of 10 plus children and a solitary table of 2. We were simply fully booked. We had no more room.

I fully understand that if you are in the establishment at 12 midday it may look like we are empty but as one of the more popular establishments on the Lane I assure you that we get booked up in advance. If we had space for the lady you mention we certainly would have accomodated her regardless of skin colour.

You are correct that we have outside tables but we do not serve food to these and it is on a busy part of North Cross Road. Perhaps not appropriate for children.

I offer you the opportunity to come and visit us. In fact I beg of you to come and meet me and (I quote) "The pathetic excuse of a human being behind the bar". Because I can assure you that your comments have offended our staff who work very hard to ensure that everyone that visits us has a nice experience.

Call me, come and see me and I'll show you the reservation sheet for the day which shows us as fully booked. I'll show you the till receipts for every table booked and you can put your point across face to face rather than as an anonymous, faceless critic on a message board.

I hope you take this opportunity. My name is Will, my number is 0208 693 1629 and I am available Monday to Friday from 9 to 6. If you want to come at a weekend, I'll make sure I'm here.

I hope this clears up the matter.