Is it true? (message from Admin) (Lounged)

[Michael Palaeologus]

I take it that means that Admin is a girl today?

[Brendan]

Is this a Marvel only party?

http://pinupartfans.com/Images/Category_1293/subcat_19822/Thumbs/Simon%20Bisley%20-%20Lobo.jpg

[Jah Lush]

There's been too many trolls and flamers on here of late and they are really xxxxx me off. What the hell is wrong with those people. xxxxx is all I can say. Well done to Admin for keep a sharp eye out for them and we should try and do the same if we want to continue to enjoy this little community called the EDF.

[Sue]

KalamityKel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Haha racist? really? do those claiming to be

> "effected" know the meaning? ::o

>

> "racism"

> (I know it's Wiki but hey ho...)

>

> To the original poster - I don't recall reading

> anywhere on this forum ANYONE saying "I have

> purple/green/red etc coloured skin and I'm better

> than anyone else who is not the same as me" So how

> can the forum be racist? Are you not bringing

> racist views in to the forum unnecessarily?

>

> Sorry, I know the aim of such comments and threads

> (by suggesting, based on no facts what so ever,

> forumites are racist) is to instigate arguments

> and such but really things like that really get me

> (6)

>

> *Edited to make points directed at the correct

> people more clearer

xxxxxxx

???

There are sometimes comments made on the forum which are bordering on racist. Sometimes they're challenged, sometimes they're not. I'm sure in most cases they aren't deliberate, but just unthinking.

I don't think it's helpful to start talking about Wiki definitions of racism, and I don't think it's helpful to suggest that no forum users are racist, just as it isn't helpful to suggest that the whole forum is racist.

Great post, candj

[pk]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KalamityKel Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Haha racist? really? do those claiming to be

> > "effected" know the meaning? ::o

> >

> > "racism"

> > (I know it's Wiki but hey ho...)

> >

> > To the original poster - I don't recall reading

> > anywhere on this forum ANYONE saying "I have

> > purple/green/red etc coloured skin and I'm

> better

> > than anyone else who is not the same as me" So

> how

> > can the forum be racist? Are you not bringing

> > racist views in to the forum unnecessarily?

> >

> > Sorry, I know the aim of such comments and

> threads

> > (by suggesting, based on no facts what so ever,

> > forumites are racist) is to instigate arguments

> > and such but really things like that really get

> me

> > (6)

> >

> > *Edited to make points directed at the correct

> > people more clearer

>

> xxxxxxx

>

> ???

>

> There are sometimes comments made on the forum

> which are bordering on racist. Sometimes they're

> challenged, sometimes they're not. I'm sure in

> most cases they aren't deliberate, but just

> unthinking.

>

> I don't think it's helpful to start talking about

> Wiki definitions of racism, and I don't think it's

> helpful to suggest that no forum users are racist,

> just as it isn't helpful to suggest that the whole

> forum is racist.

>

> Great post, candj

i agree with Sue

[jimmy two times]

If you want to see 'racist' have a look at the postinsg put up on youtube under certain clips. I'm always appalled by how strong they are. I reckon they're mostly posted by Americans. Is that racist of me? Anyway, I guess the point I'm making is there's not much, if any, racism on this forum.

[Sue]

The kindest interpretation I can put on your observation, jimmytwotimes, is that it's naive.

You don't have to have extremist views such as those you have seen on youtube (why on earth were you watching those clips, anyway?) to be racist. Racism can be expressed in very subtle and insidious ways.

There may not be "much" racism on the forum, but to say "if any" is just plain wrong. I have personally reported several racist posts in the past which were then removed, and there have been others reported by other people. And that's quite apart from open comment and discussion on the subject on the forum itself.

I have also "let pass" a number of comments which bordered on being racist because I just knew that if I challenged them I would be accused of being PC etc etc etc.

And the above is just the ones I happen to have seen. I obviously don't read every thread on the forum, and I stopped reading a number of threads because the subject matter was winding me up so much.

To make generalisations about the forum is as unhelpful as making generalisations about groups of people based on their ethnicity or any other characteristic they happen to share.

[jimmy two times]

I'm a boxing fan. The clips I was watching were boxing clips, especially those involving a black v white fighter.

[Jeremy]

I do agree that sometimes people say things which may offend... I think that 9 times out of 10, these are innocent mistakes. People are sometimes ignorant about words which may cause offense, phrase things badly, or perhaps don't describe people in enough detail, hence giving the impression that they are generalising.

This is clearly not "racism" in the true meaning of the word... ignorance and lack of tact, maybe. Perhaps the best course of action is to explain why their post may offend people, rather than wading in with strong language and leading the thread totally off-topic (not pointing the finger at anyone in particular here). I really think that you're more likely to get people to see your point by taking a diplomatic approach. Hostility will just lead to resentment on both sides.

Of course, any genuinely racist posts (i.e. intentional offence, discrimination) should be reported, and I would hope that any such posters would receive zero sympathy on this board.

[Mikecg]

Well said that man.(tu)

[mockney piers]

candj, what a wonderful post, thanks so much.

Jimmy two times, for you

 

[lenk]

There's a lot of misguided snobbishness which overspills into mild racism on here - usually but not exclusively related to crime and/or 'suspicious activity'.

It's worth those posting such things to remember you're in a city of 6m people, applying any generalisations to particular people or areas is naive and dangerous.

[*Bob*]

It's also worth remember that seven hand-wringing pages of 'debate' within the cossetted world of the EDF - centred around whether you can or can't use the word 'black' in this or that way - pale into significance when (for example) I occasionally have the pleasure of a trip back home and step into a world where some people think 'that p*kis smell, mostly own corner shops and all live togther twenty to a room so they can pay less council tax'

I'm not sure if reporting them to the Admin will have much effect.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I agree with Sue's post.

As a person of colour, I do find it quite strange the reaction on here to things when it comes to colour, someone can say they saw a black guy with dreadlocks burglaring a neighbours' house and then others seems to take it upon themselves to be overly PC and say " You cannot say that, what does it matter if he is black with dreadlock, what will that solve?" but if he is black with dreadlocks, then he is black with dreadlocks!

I also found it quite strange when I mentioned someone was 'exotic' and people took offence to that, as someone of colour, I think I would know if this is offensive or not! Amazing that they think calling someone exotic counts as being racist, even I get called exotic, I quite like it!

And I don't know any black person who takes offence at being called black after all check application forms, what do they put when asking your ethnicity ? Black British, Black African, Mixed Race, White British, White Irish and so on. It only becomes a big deal when people not wanting to be seen as racist all jump on the PC wagon and say " You cannot call someone black, exotic etc" it just makes things bigger than they are.

As for people using the term half caste, coloured etc, I have to say from a personal experience I tend to take this with a pinch of salt only because my grandmother, who is FAR from racist is old school and it was normal in those days to call mixed race children half caste and black people coloured and being old and set in her ways she still calls people that.

Even I used to call myself half caste because in the 70's/80's that was normal but naturally as time changed etc, we realised that it was not actually a nice label to have and we changed it to mixed race.

My grandmother actually thinks calling someone black is quite offensive, even though they have told her they prefer it but as I said she is from the older generation hence using out dated terms. I will only get offended if they say something that is out of order when using the term black, half caste, coloured etc, i.e all coloured people , Half caste children are dumb etc, otherwise, what is the big deal? the world is full of people with prejudices, and we cannot educate and change everyone.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

What a wonderful post HeidiHi - not enough commonsense in the world!

[Asset]

Much of what HeidiHi says is common sense yes, but personally, I'm not sure I agree with all of the post.

A "person of colour" can still harbour their own form of racism and I still think that using the term 'exotic' is slightly dubious, particularly in the context of the other thread.

[Moos]

As the person Heidihi refers to in re: the burglary post I will point out that what I thought was unacceptable was making a joke about 'deadlocks against dreadlocks'. I also think that over-sensitivity is better than insensitivity.

I agree with much of what HeidiHi posts but at the end of the day if you aren't sure ... don't post it.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Sorry Moos, I was not actually referring to you! Sorry if it came across that way! I was just expressing an example as to how some people are not allowed to express the colour of people when it comes to crimes etc due to offending others but if the person is whatever colour then being PC is not going to make that colour disappear, there is nothing racist about saying the guy was black, asian or white.

How often do people say " You know the guy at the local offie?" and you reply " which one?" " the black/asian/white etc one"? and we go " oh yeah! What about him?" it is not racist to do that.

And as for exotic, if I don't know if the person is from Iraq, India, Iran, Afghanistan, and the person is not white and definitely not born here, then I say exotic! Exotic is NOT racist, I really don't think someone from abroad who is not born or bred English is going to say " She called me EXOTIC?! that is so racist!"

True, even a black, mixed race, person can be racist, I am pleased to say I am not! But then naturally if you do not know me, you are not going to know that.

I have to say I am very pleased this is not an American forum because I have been on many American forums, Youtube is a perfect example to how racist and expressive americans are in their views to colour, you only need to watch most American films which features black actors to see that more often than not, reference to their colour is always made. You don't really see that in British Films and programmes and I quite like that, this forum is very mild in comparison.

As Moos said, probaly good we are oversensitive instead of insensitive.

[SteveT]

I find Heidihi your post full of that increasingly rare commodity, 'common sense' so top marks to you.

[willow]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a troll?

[Mikecg]

a troll is Internet slang, it is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community.

[lenk]

I?d like someone to clearly and definitively define exactly what PC/political correctness actually means.

In my experience, it just means a device that neatly encompasses ?whatever topic I?m currently complaining about?.

[Mikecg]

I think PC it to be aware and not say things that could upset people. for example I wear glasses and If someone says "four eyes go and get me a cup of coffee. I might think OH NO! they called me four eyes and that's what they used to call me when I was a kid in the 70's I am really upset now I think I will get that coat stand and smash the bloke over the head with it. Or, I am going to HR and then I am going to sue the company.

There is more to it than that but that is the basics of what I believe it to be. Dont intentionally try to f*ck people off.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Mikecg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think PC it to be aware and not say things that

> could upset people. for example I wear glasses and

> If someone says "four eyes go and get me a cup of

> coffee. I might think OH NO! they called me four

> eyes and that's what they used to call me when I

> was a kid in the 70's I am really upset now I

> think I will get that coat stand and smash the

> bloke over the head with it. Or, I am going to HR

> and then I am going to sue the company.

>

> There is more to it than that but that is the

> basics of what I believe it to be. Dont

> intentionally try to f*ck people off.

LOL love that explanation!!

Or as one website states it means:

Showing an effort to make broad social and political changes to redress injustices caused by prejudice. It often involves changing or avoiding language that might offend anyone, especially with respect to gender, race, or ethnic background.

[Zaardvark]

Hi,

Re Asset's post - perhaps it is time to define what reactive PC posters on here want. Asset does not have a history of doing the things I list below but obviously others do.

Thus do reactive PC posters on here want:

(a) people not to refer to someone's ethnicity in any way what-so-ever in this forum, for to do so would risk being non-PC, including asking that people not to refer to themselves as they wish;

© us to share their obviously deeply felt political correctness;

or, given what Admin has said,

(d) are a large proportion of the posters objecting to the use of 'black', 'white', 'dreadlocks', 'exotic', etc., trolls who just like seeing people squirm?

I guess my point here is that people on here object to even slight transgressions of the above, seeing the negative in everything that is posted here. But please, can we not allow people to refer to THEMSELVES as they wish to, at the very least.

This forum is a wonderful place - let's not allow petty morality (morality condeming non-existant sins) to ruin it.

Best

Z.