20 mph!!!

[0017bond]

Why are we now having to drive at 20 mph and where the hell have all these cameras come from? (Bromar Road)

[Robert Poste's Child]

That'll be for the dangerous drivers who think 20mph on a residential hilly road is unreasonable.

Seriously, have you ever done even 20 on that road and thought it was sensible?

[kford]

Is it a speed camera?

There are traffic counting cameras at the top of that road on Champion Hill (grey CCTV-like cameras on temporary poles).

It's unlikely to be a yellow speed camera as it wouldn't make enough money to cover its running costs.

[Charles Notice]

They are all over the place. Cllr Barber was asked to supply details of where the 44 monitoring places where sited when the 20 mph first came up.

He has not done so perhaps they are part of this. There are a few as you come down Dog Kennel Hill and into Sainsbury,s.

[kford]

They are not speed cameras. They're traffic monitoring cameras, to observe driving habits at key locations, such as junctions or traffic lights, that's why there's a pair at the top of Dog Kennel Hill. They're used to improve road layout. See the photo attached of one in Grimsby.

[Countrlass22]

Southwark council is introducing a 20 mph speed limit throughout borough of Southwark.

Except dual carriageway areas.

Is on Southwark news letter.

You will notice banners on lampposts stating large numbers 20mph zone

[phobic3000]

It's ridiculous. I've seen people overtaking along Sydenham Hill because they are stuck behind someone doing 20. It's dangerous overtaking on that road yet completely inappropriate to drive at 20mph on such a wide road.

[spider69]

kford Wrote:

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> They are not speed cameras. They're traffic

> monitoring cameras, to observe driving habits at

> key locations, such as junctions or traffic

> lights, that's why there's a pair at the top of

> Dog Kennel Hill. They're used to improve road

> layout. See the photo attached of one in Grimsby.

To improve? just like the fiasco currently on Townley Road.

What will this bring in the future, Any suggestions or thoughts from Cllrs

[Lowlander]

phobic3000 Wrote:

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> It's ridiculous. I've seen people overtaking along

> Sydenham Hill because they are stuck behind

> someone doing 20. It's dangerous overtaking on

> that road yet completely inappropriate to drive at

> 20mph on such a wide road.

Why is it inappropriate? The 20mph limit also reduces road noise (by a surprising factor) and makes it more pleasant for pedestrians. And as has been shown it's confusing to have varying limits all over London - 30mph on Red Routes and 20mph everywhere else is simple.

But yes I totally agree it's dangerous overtaking on that road. Downright stupid in fact.

As a driver and pedestrian I welcome the 20mph limit.

[dbboy]

And increases pollution.

[Lowlander]

dbboy Wrote:

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> And increases pollution.

Or decreases. Depending on driving styles, terrain. I've seen that argument elsewhere and there's unanimous disagreement. The only consensus is that any impact is negligible.

But really, if it cuts deaths and has a negligible impact on journey times, the only logical reason to oppose it is because of the fear of being overtaken by speeding motorists?

[Otta]

I'd certainly welcome it in Penge (as a pedestrian). My one big downside about the area is that there are a number of roads which I don't feel safe crossing because people use them as rat runs and drive like feckin morons.

[????]

Support it too.

[phobic3000]

It is ridiculous. Sydenham Hill is a nice wide road, 20mph is too slow for that road. By all means slow down at the bends but people who crawl along at 18-20mph and slow to 15 at the bends... It's inappropriate. I see people getting frustrated and overtaking, which is dangerous. Totally agree about Penge speed. Seems so wrong to crawl along Sydenham Hill at 20 then to speed up down the much narrower steep hill with side roads obstructed with parked cars down to Penge...

[Jeremy]

Just don't see why 20mph along Sydenham Hill would be necessary. It doesn't get parked up along there (in fact isn't most of it double yellows?) so pedestrians have good visibility of oncoming traffic, and drivers don't have to worry about people darting out between parked cars.

To apply the same speed limit as parked up narrow residential streets, or busy streches of shops makes no sense at all.

[Otta]

I dunno, I can't think of many spots where I'd feel overly confident about crossing that road.

[Jeremy]

Then maybe what it needs are some proper islands to make crossing safer.

[Otta]

Yeah that would work.

[DulwichFox]

Certainly more people seem to be taking the advantage of the 20 MPH and darting across the road

feeling it is now safe to do so. .. and not using the crossings.

With cars travelling closer together there is likely to be more rear end shunts due to people doing so.

Also cyclist tend to ride faster than 20 MPH. They pass me on the inside all the time when I am out driving.

DulwichFox

[phobic3000]

I'm absolutely for certain roads being 20mph. Especially all the roads near pubs like The Castle, The Great Exhibition, The Actress etc. Those roads are narrow with lots of side roads and people should drive slow and take extra care. But I also think common sense should be used especially with big wide open roads like Sydenham Hill. Maybe a couple of speed humps before the bends or as mentioned earlier, islands for crossing. Or maybe more zebra crossings? I just worry because I see people getting frustrated and overtaking, creating dangerous situations. If they could stick to 30 they wouldn't do this.

[uncleglen]

I suppose Southwark have to spend their road budget on something....or they lose it. Probably spend money taking all the shyte down next year!

[Lowlander]

Sydenham Hill length 3 miles

At 30mph - 6 minutes

at 20mph 9 minutes

Assuming generously that you could drive at those speeds the entire length, you'll probably waste more time posting on this thread in frustration at the new limits than you'd spend driving at 30

[Blah Blah]

lol uncle.

[mako]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> Sydenham Hill length 3 miles

>

> At 30mph - 6 minutes

> at 20mph 9 minutes

>

> Assuming generously that you could drive at those

> speeds the entire length, you'll probably waste

> more time posting on this thread in frustration at

> the new limits than you'd spend driving at 30

3 minutes there and back each day and that is a couple of whole days every year that you could be spending with friends family etc instead extra time stuck on a big wide road doing 20. how far do you take it lowlander? 10mph limit may mean less chance of death. 5mph limit even less chance of death. no cars? As mentioned on the other thread the last year of full records available for rtas (2013) was the lowest recorded number of deaths ever. its politically motivated and has nothing to do with safety.

[Blah Blah]

This is correct Mako. And for those who drive all day as part of a living, the time impact is greater. And then what about at night, when there is no-one about and you are the only car on the road trundilng at 20 mph? Even the police objected in Southwark's consultation but the cabinet member who drove it through ignored the seven objections, in favour of the two for - both single interest groups it has to be said. So defintely politically motivated, based on a manifesto promise, that had no interest in the findings of consultation, or objections.

And pretty soon drivers will realise there's no way of enforcing it and enough of them will revert back to 30 to increase the dangers as they overtake the slower moving vehicles.

And btw, Islington who were the first borough to introduce a blanket 20 mph limit (as it was the borough with the highest number of accidents in the entire UK in 2013) are now looking at ways to enforce it, as most drivers don't adhere to it. A recent police operation to monitor driver speeds caught just under 1000 drivers breaking the 20 mph limit in one session. TFL haven't published figures for 2014 yet, so as I said above, there is no real data available yet to show if 20 mph borough wide zones in London have had any impact on accidents.