Fred's Pension & Harriet Harman

[Marmora Man]

Harriet has says that even if Fred The Shed's obscenely large pension is legal and was signed off by Ministers (probably including the Chancellor) the Prime Minister will ensure he doesn't get the full sum of ?693,000 pa, she implies that the government / Gordon will enact legislation to enable it to recover the pension fund from Fred.

Harriet Speaks

I have no wish, or inclination, to defend Fred's pension but I find Harriet's statement profoundly disturbing. Retrospective legislation should never be condoned - no matter what the purpose.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

A lawyer said this??:

"And it might be enforceable in a court of law, this contract, but it is not enforceable in the court of public opinion and that is where the government steps in."

[Moos]

HH would say anything or do anything to manoevre into position for PM'ship. Much as I'd like to see a female PM, she is wholly unqualified and undesirable.

[AllforNun]

You go Harriet...we could do with some of that pension money to spend on the Nunhead Regeneration Zone, oasis er actually did i just dream the whole thing up ?

[Asset]

Drop in the ocean, media expanded fuss. Government feels pressure to say something, says wrong thing. Hmmmm sounds familiar.

[HonaloochieB]

I don't find Harman's mitherings to do with anything other than the usual kowtowing to the press.

It's all blather and flummery and will possibly lead to an 'enquiry', maybe resulting in a lot of arsewind and a rich Fred.

It wouldn't be this way if Tony Soprano was running the country.

And I don't consider myself a cynic.

[????]

As the Daily Mash pointed out (someone get the link please I'm a technichal idiot) It's Gordon Brown who should also have his pension stopped given what a balls up he's made of UK PLC

[AllforNun]

yer what a balls up ? did you not think to buy a house in ED/DV/WD/NH/Pecknarm sometime back ?

if the other parties had been in charge it would be UK KFC by now !

[HonaloochieB]

AllforNun Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yer what a balls up ? did you not think to buy a

> house in ED/DV/WD/NH/Pecknarm sometime back ?

>

> if the other parties had been in charge it would

> be UK KFC by now !

Jesus AFN, just because you own the Talking Heads LP 'Stop making Sense', it doesn't mean you have to live your life by it.

[AllforNun]

talking heads ...who on earth are they ?.......more badger fans i suppose

[????]

AFN....KFC just annouced a massive expansion we are going there

[AllforNun]

ooh nice do you think the buckets will offer more choice, maybe another internal section, sealed of course, for doughnuts.

[Brendan]

Here is the article quids mentioned.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/brown-refuses-to-hand-back-pension-200902271606/

[Brendan]

And here's another,

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/britain-to-become-bucket%11based-economy-200902171582/

[Atila Reincarnate]

To award anyone such an obscene amount of money is folly of the highest order.

[Marmora Man]

To award anyone such an obscene amount of money is folly of the highest order.

That's this Gordon Brown government for you.

[AllforNun]

well actually it's this countries democratically elected government, which obviously you all signed up to....unless your anarchists ? and anyway 16 million is not obscene, Dulwich Mum spends that in a year.

[Huguenot]

Well, yes but...

If it's a private traded company he can pay himself what he wants.

If it's a public traded company then he can pay himself what the shareholders agree to, but this presupposes that they're both consulted and educated.

If it's a publicly owned company then he gets paid what politicians feels is the minimum necessary whilst still retaining the vote. This presupposes that the public are educated sufficiently well to use their vote wisely.

[dave]

Harriet said: "it might be enforceable in a court of law, this contract, but it is not enforceable in the court of public opinion and that is where the government steps in."

Now, this court of public opinion sounds like a good thing to me - how did the jury of this court find the defendant, one Mr T Blair, when he was accused, with multiple accomplices, of acting in bad faith in taking the UK into a war (or two)? For these wars there appeared to be no mandate or justification - either ahead of time with regard to any resolution/vote in the UN, or through any credible intelligence on weapons of mass destruction, or retrospectively through what was found in Iraq and Afghanistan. And what did the judge of this court of public opinion do when one J Smith, of (occasionally) Nunhead, was found with her fingers in the till of public money?

Leaving aside the implications of legislating for one badly-conducted contractual negotiation, this is a very dangerous move for the government to be talking about. The PM appears to have backtracked today, thankfully...

[SeanMacGabhann]

If the implication is that Howard/Hague/IDS or Cameron would have behaved any differently then I am going to have a hard time buying it

[Mick Mac]

It will be very interesting to see what Harriet Harman has in mind....await her next move with interest.

We the people and the government and the world economy are all victims of sub prime, and the stupid "AAA" risk attached to the securitised assets which all banks bought into with their cash reserves. I blame the risk agencies, Moodys, Standard & Poor or whoever rated these "assets" for ALL of what has happended.

Fred should keep his pension, he negotaited it and its been signed. He built up a huge banking empire and but for the incorrect ratings attributed to sub prime he might still be building this bank. Eventually he did fail in the eyes of the media and the people, but not in terms of his employment contract, if he is asked to go he is entitled to a termination package in line with his earnings. There is nothing the government can now do about that, I would be very surprised if there are any changes to his termination arrangements.

[Marmora Man]

If the implication is that Howard/Hague/IDS or Cameron would have behaved any differently then I am going to have a hard time buying it

Sean,

Poor logic. Howard / Hague / IDS & Cameron have not and are not in charge of government. The Labour Party is. This government - T Blair's & G Brown's has been characterised by headlining statements and then a lack of attention to detail:

Remove tax breaks on Pension Funds - ?5 Billion a year win for government coffers - but destruction of previously internationally regarded British pension system.

Make the Bank of England independent - but fail to put in place a sufficiently rigorous regulatory regime. Result - economic meltdown.

Invade Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction - whoops, no WMD. Result 150+ deaths of British service and well over a 1,000 serious injuries plus countless thousands of Iraqi deaths and heightened tensions with Islamic world.

Send Parachute REgiment to Helmand Province - John Reid states "We'll not need to fire a single shot". 3 years and several million rounds of ammunition later - we're losing servicemen's lives again.

Take over RBS and sack the CEO. Fail to check up on the small print of the deal - make a song and dance about something that is legally watertight and beyond government interference (cf: Mick Mac's post above.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Ill need to check my facts mm but im fairly sure her majesty s opposition supported blair and brown in several of those ventures

[Marmora Man]

Ill need to check my facts mm but im fairly sure her majesty s opposition supported blair and brown in several of those ventures

It is possible to support the intention but still find that the detail is lacking. However, of my five examples the opposition opposed at least two - Pension raid and deployment of troops to Afghanistan without adequate support.

[snorky]

Does it really matter what someone get in a pension, given the scale of fuckups that we have seen of late ? No one was bothered about Freds Pot when their houses were rocketing in value just like their their own company/priate pension pots ( contianing a big slice of RBS equity ) anmd whatever equities they were holding, either in person of via proxy.....all of which are part of the same set of rubbish asset valuations that led to this downfall

So why the big bother now ?