Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Can't feel sorry for the guys that decided to do this, it would have been planned and to follow that filthy behaviour through, only deserves a serious life changing punishment. Nothing excuses their behaviour.

Although in this situation, for whatever reason the system didn't work (and this could be that the caller didn't manage to convey the severity of the case - call takers can only make decisions based on the quality of info given). No doubt there will be a case review, and that any changes required will be made.


The idea of the set of assessment questions is that nothing is missed & the call taker is able to get all information required - without this important questions/pieces of info could be missed and in a life threatening situation (ie not breathing/cardiac arrest), would not delay the dispatch of an ambulance.


It is really important to let them ask the questions and collate all info and does follow the Airway, breathing, circulation model that any emergency triage assessment is based upon.


It's often easy to criticise people doing jobs that many wouldn't want to do themselves - the pressure (around 4500 calls a day, abuse they often face and the immense emotional stress - even after my years in A&E I was always appreciative of the care and calming effect LAS crews/call takers had often had on families paving the way for us to take over.





DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I felt physically ill when I read about this

> > yesterday. Never ceases to shock, how some

> people

> > are capable of such disgusting behaviour.

> >

> > Quite possible that it was treated as a low

> > priority because the caller didn't convey the

> full

> > details. Wouldn't be so quick to jump to

> > conclusions regarging the ambulance service.

>

> Jeremy.. We had an emergency at Curry Club when

> one person was suddenly taken very ill..

>

> On calling the Emergency Services the caller was

> asked what seemed like an list of

> pre-prepared questions and would not listen to

> any details the caller was trying to convey

> saying. "I did not ask you about that. Just answer

> the questions"

>

> I can only assume the answers to the questions

> merit points and that the number of points

> determines the urgency of the situation.

>

> Not the best system IMHO.

>

> DulwichFox

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Absolutely awful attack.

>

> Personally I find it hard to understand that an 8

> months pregnant woman being seriously assaulted

> would be anything but an emergency for the

> ambulance service.


Agreed. And any attempt to shift blame to the caller seems incredibly wrong-headed in this particular case. Something seems to have terribly wrong with LAS in this case. :-(

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think anybody is trying to "blame" the

> caller! Of course not. But I wouldn't want to

> assume that the ambulance dispatcher, in full

> posession of the facts, decided this wasn't a high

> priority call.


From what I've read, the dispatcher does not make the assessment.


The dispatcher asks a set or pre-prepared questions and records the answers into a PC.

where a computer program makes the assessment based on the answers given.


It would seem that in this case the system failed.


We will have to wait for the results of any pending enquiry..


DulwichFox

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Could well be a software bug, Fox. Hopefully this

> will all be reviewed properly and promptly.



It's the Algorithm ? - mind you I remember the same issue when my father died in 1979 (not that it would have helped)


an earlier one ....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/523599/Man-999-call-ambulance-bath-gallstones


And here's the moral "He fell through gaps in the system because he was not pushy enough,"

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Again, it's pure conjecture. There could be any

> number of reasons why the call was prioritised

> incorrectly.


Agree - I suspected with my dad they assumed he was already gone.


Some of the decision making has to be heartless in a way.

Relying on a computer to assess calls is completely wrong imo. It's what happens when public services try to cut costs by taking any kind of decision making away from staff. It means they don't have to know anything and are cheaper to employ.


I once had to attend to an injured (traffic accident) woman while passing and someone else called the ambulance. In spite of knowing exactly what to do I got exasperated at the person on the other end of the phone who wanted to ask me a long list of questions. I cut her short, telling her I knew what I was doing and an ambulance was required right away. Now if I had to be forceful in that way, what chance do non medical people have? (Glad to say the ambulance on that occasion arrived within five minutes and the woman made a full recovery). There has to be an inquiry into the system I think. It's not the first time things have gone wrong.

Why did the police wait an hour (according to reports) before the ambulance came? Surely they could have taken the victim to the hospital? I am assuming there was more than one police officer - they usually arrive in great numbers.
Police CANCELLED Ambulance request after an hour and took her themselves, they took a "face of it" risk assessment and couldn't accept the situation as stood. Ambulance service is not to blame, they can not cope with the cuts that have been made and it will only get worse

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why did the police wait an hour


Maybe because they thought the ambulance was on the way, and they thought that moving her without the correct procedure might worsen the injuries?

Think that's probably it. My initial thought was why the hell didn't they just take her, but they probably felt it would be too great a risk until it became clear the ambulance wasn't coming.


Agree with BR, the fact is simply that there are not enough resources.

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think anybody is trying to "blame" the

> caller! Of course not. But I wouldn't want to

> assume that the ambulance dispatcher, in full

> posession of the facts, decided this wasn't a high

> priority call.


Perhaps I should have said responsibility rather than blame.


Statements such as caller didn't state severity or give correct details etc, are IMHO shifting responsibility/blame to the victim in this case, and constitute a weak protocol in general. That is not the same as pointing blame/responsibility at a single dispatcher, which I'm not herein implying. Against the backdrop of cuts and within the constraint of scripted protocols, this seems to be an institutional problem, and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

Saffron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> Statements such as caller didn't state severity or

> give correct details etc, are IMHO shifting

> responsibility/blame to the victim


Look this is getting silly. It was just an example of one scenario which MIGHT have occurred. Not shifting blame at all. My point was simply that we don't know the full facts and jumping to conclusions is not helpful.

Let us hope and pray that Malorie is recovering from her terrible ordeal. She should have had total priority surely as a pregnant woman of 21 and what had happened.


Earlier this year my family called for an ambulance for my Dad. God rest his soul he has since passed away, but we were told to wait up until 4 hours for an ambulance.

northdulmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just watching London news now. Another case of ambulance not turning up when they should have, to

> a man attacked for his bike.

>

> Pretty depressing and I suspect it's everything to do with cuts.


But isn't the ambulance service part of the NHS, and so therefore not part of the cuts?

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Goose Green Ward Panel Meeting   Date: 24th of July 2025, 7pm Location: East Dulwich Picturehouse | 116A Lordship Lane | London SE22 8HD    Safer Neighbourhoods Team (SNT) will be holding a ward panel meeting at East Dulwich Picturehouse on Thursday 24th July 2025 from 7pm. Please come along to talk about the priorities for the community and how local police can help.  
    • Eh? That wasn't "my quote"! If you look at your post above,it is clearly a quote by Rockets! None of us have any  idea what a Corbyn led government during Covid would have been like. But do you seriously think it would have been worse than Johnson's self-serving performance? What you say about the swing of seats away from Labour in 2019 is true. But you have missed my point completely. The fact that Labour under Corbyn got more than ten million votes does not mean that Corbyn was "unelectable", does it? The present electoral system is bonkers, which is why a change is apparently on the cards. Anyway, it is pointless discussing this, because we are going round in circles. As for McCluskey, whatever the truth of that report, I can't see what it has to do with Corbyn?
    • Exactly what I said, that Corbyn's group of univeristy politics far-left back benchers would have been a disaster during Covid if they had won the election. Here you go:  BBC News - Ex-union boss McCluskey took private jet flights arranged by building firm, report finds https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3kgg55410o The 2019 result was considered one of the worst in living memory for Labour, not only for big swing of seats away from them but because they lost a large number of the Red-wall seats- generational Labour seats. Why? Because as Alan Johnson put it so succinctly: "Corbyn couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag"! https://youtu.be/JikhuJjM1VM?si=oHhP6rTq4hqvYyBC
    • Agreed and in the meantime its "joe public" who has to pay through higher prices. We're talking all over the shop from food to insurance and everything in between.  And to add insult to injury they "hurt " their own voters/supporters through the actions they have taken. Sadly it gets to a stage where you start thinking about leaving London and even exiting the UK for good, but where to go????? Sad times now and ahead for at least the next 4yrs, hence why Govt and Local Authorities need to cut spending on all but essential services.  An immediate saving, all managerial and executive salaries cannot exceed and frozen at £50K Do away with the Mayor of London, the GLA and all the hanging on organisations, plus do away with borough mayors and the teams that serve them. All added beauracracy that can be dispensed with and will save £££££'s  
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...