What?s really going on?

[Brendan]

Not that I?m a cynic or anything but does anyone have any ideas on what this MPs expenses furore is really covering up?

[charliecharlie]

Global economic meltdown...

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Well I was surprised to see that the alien landing on Peckham Rye a fortnight ago, didn't get more coverage.

[matthew123]

Maybe it's covering up that Journlists are getting too fat on their McDonalds vouchers to go out and report real stories

[Santerme]

Melting ice could cause gravity shift

The melting of one of the world's largest ice sheets would alter the Earth's field of gravity and even its rotation in space so much that it would cause sea levels along some coasts to rise faster than the global average

[????]

Mllwall might get promotion

[Mikecg]

We get shafted by the taxman so that the MP's can live like kings. If you were to fiddle the taxman like those paracitic commoners you'd be looking at 4 walls in Brixton with bars on your window and a bucket to take a slash in.

[MrBen]

Nothing really. Just a lax expenses policy with vague rules finally ending up as you'd expect. Funny to watch them all squirming but not sure it's done anyone any favours.

As a tax payer I'm more concerned with the fact that the very wealthy get taxed less than the average working man on the street than some MP claiming a flat screen telly. Or lightbulbs or whatever.

[Horsebox]

Marks and Spencer opening on Lordship Lane?

[HonaloochieB]

It's an opportunity for some journalists to take the moral high ground, again. And again.

Some journalists? Wangled exes? They go together like fdish and chips. From Fish! in the Borough, and there'll be a receipt.

I'm sure it gives Quentin Letts scope to produce some of his political skits and by doing so maintains the argument that being smug, dull, obvious and dull is a special need.

[northlondoner]

Well done Honaloochieb. Yes the idea of newspaper journos criticising anyone about expenses is a proper laugh. A lot of their claims must surely qualify for Booker nominations. I suppose it aint public money - but I'm sure shareholders might have something to say....

[????]

Sooo....journalist get their expenses from the public, are there to represent us, and claim expenses running into ?100,000s? I don't think so....it's a weak argument put about by guilty as sin MPs and by the metroplitan elite who detest the opinions and anger of middle england as a matter of course, even when they are clearly right, which they clearly are in this case...anger at corruption and theft, how very petit borgeios

[bawdy-nan]

What did you expect?

I mean, really, did you think that all MPs were in it for the common good?

I find it difficult to get angry. Its no more that I expected and its not unlike everyone else. Its not all MPs who have been dishonest or greedy. Some have been, of course, but its hardly surprising. Its good that they've been exposed but some of the reactions are far too extreme.

If you look at the lists of people who've claimed nothing they're mostly just stinking rich. Is that what we need or want: the independently wealthy only to have access to power?

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that people who are required to maintain two homes should be subsidised to do so. It seems perfectly reasonable that maintenance and furnishing of said homes should be allowed. Probably this should be rental only or funded such that big profits aren't allowed.

Much of the anger seems to be directed beyond moral failings and towards the idea that "these people" should be subsidised at all.

[????]

"It seems perfectly reasonable to me that people who are required to maintain two homes should be subsidised to do so. It seems perfectly reasonable that maintenance and furnishing of said homes should be allowed. Probably this should be rental only or funded such that big profits aren't allowed.

Much of the anger seems to be directed beyond moral failings and towards the idea that "these people" should be subsidised at all."

the first paragraph is absolutely spot on...the 2nd paragraph looks like your opinion I haven't seen that much of that?

Actually, I did hope that the vast majority of the people who were meant to represent us, set and uphold our laws had some kind of compass on what was and wasn't acceptable however grey their system.....as I've said before, I don't buy into this 'everyone's at it' bit anyway, I know loads of people who work hard on shitty money, pay taxes, don't get bonuses or expense accounts and don't expect their money to be spent on moats, manure, etc and don't expect their MPs do go through loopholes to avoid paying tax on their subsisdised property whilst collecting and spending our taxes...

It seems I'm in a minority on here by being genuinely appaled about this...which is depressing, to be honest.

[Horsebox]

edited due to drunken bereaved ramblings.(td)

[bawdy-nan]

Quids, I don't mean that people are wrong to be angry about the treating of the public purse as a personal John Lewis account, rather that some of the lists of "shocking" things people have claimed for don't feel that shocking. For example, I came across a mild sputtering fury at some MP having claimed to have a boiler fixed or buying fixtures and fittings for a home. This seems perfectly reasonable to me in the context of maintaining a second home when its a necessary requirement of the job. In other cases, of course, its much clearer that there's trough snaffling and slippy greed. Everything seems to be being lumped together though as if the very fact of claimig expenses were wrong.

I think it is right that people who don't have private wealth sufficient to facilitate their being an MP should be facilitated to serve as an MP.

There's a general fury abroad, some of which is justified, but I find it interesting too. I just don't think that everyone is on the make and that goes for MPs, though I think its inevitable that the kind of person who puts themselves up for election must be a little odd. I suppose I always imagined that this kind of thing happened and I took it as part and parcel of that world: where money, ambition, strategy and passion collide with sometimes messy consequences. I think expenses are pretty small beer when you consider the influence MPs hold, what Ministers go on to do (sit on executive boards of pharmaceutical companies, etc etc etc).

There's also been a switch in focus of anger from the private sector "fat-cats" to the public sector. It comes, in part, I think from anxieties borne of the recession, envy about pensions and perceived job-security in the public sector as well as an almost viral-like infection of the public with this idea of public power. Voting, recently, has been more to do with the emotional triumph of an underdog amateur singer / dancer / performer (a sense of acheivement and power shared by the voters as much as the winner) than politics and in this whole expenses story I sometimes get the sense of a frantic desire to "vote them off".

(Horse-box - you're frothing too much at the mouth to make sense, dab away at those flecks and have a sit down)

[SteveT]

Well why aren't they adhering to the laws of the land like the rest of society has to.

This is what we can expect from our 'great and good' when they are allowed to produce their own personal 'book of rules'?

[charliecharlie]

I think it is right that people who don't have private wealth sufficient to facilitate their being an MP should be facilitated to serve as an MP.

is the implication here that those with private wealth should pay out of their own purse for the privilege of being a public servant? that doesn't seem right... are you 'means tested' before your salary and expenses are agreed?

[Nero]

You know what? The public whines on - mostly justifiably - about venal, grasping MPs, but it rarely applies the same rigour and enthusiasm to the actual process of electing them in the first place, let alone following what they get up to. We get the leaders we deserve, they say. I'd like it if this scandal would get people more interested and involved in a positive way, and not just in a told-you-so/they're-all-at-it indignation-fest manner.

[SeanMacGabhann]

amen Nero

Not only that but the mob is treating all MPs in much the same way and assumes they are all out fiddling major expenses and if you were one of the thankless MPs trying to do your job only to have yer average salt-of0the-earth-angry-and-justified voter tell you you were on the take how would you feel

Keep a level head, find out who has done genuine wrong and punish accordingly but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater