Daily Mail readers show their true colours

[Sherwick]

josiebee Wrote:

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> I haven't followed many of the messages here but I

> really like what you say. I think if we do want to

> mix with people of different cultural backgrounds

> a really good starting point is acknowledging that

> people do get drawn towards people similar to

> themselves.

Speak for yourself, darling.

[Atila Reincarnate]

My late father arrived in London in 1955 & as a matter of choice chose to mix with other Turkish Cypriots in the various shady gambling dens & card schools in both North & South East [he later opened his own dodgy card school above a shop we owned in Peckham]. He once explained to me the reason he mixed with his fellow islanders was because they spoke the same language, had the same culture, same religous beliefs, etc & felt no kinship with Londoners of another race, colour, or creed. I on the other hand was born and bred in London, have some affinity with Turkish Cypriots for obvious reasons but also for obvious reasons,namely shared experiences and so on, I'm more at home with people born & bred here

[Huguenot]

Atila, I think that's hilarious.

I think TLS probably didn't think your family was immigrant when he sided with your support for the market....

In his own words

"EXACTLY what I was saying and surprise, surprise it comes from someone who IN PRACTICE NOT THEORY actually lived there during the halcyon days of a very vibrant market that was universally loved in South-Eaat London, then.

"It IS all about the loss of traditional English Culture, in this case exemplfied by a Street Market that has existed for 100 years only 3/4 miles from the heart of Central London. "

True colours indeed.

Still laughing very very hard. Eyes watering :))

[Huguenot]

Tony, you must have choked on your cheerios.

Ha!

:))

[Tony.London Suburbs]

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> Tony, you must have choked on your cheerios.>

> Ha!

I'm laughing, geniunely, as you TOTALLY missed the point H. !!!

I'm in a very good mood so I'll be tolerant.

Firstly Atila had mentioned, a few times lately, of his background but the point you have missed by a million miles is that WE WERE ALL ONE COMMUNITY then and other Guys were known AFFECTIONATELY like "Bubbles" for Greeks etc, we were all Londoners together with, as Atila, notes a very English/British feel to the place. We were all Walworthians or Dulwichites or Brixtonians, it did not matter to the "mass" as overalL as London still retained the "traditional" British Culture.

I see, simplistically, you have put "2 x 2" together and said to yourself "TLS/Turkish--he no liky"..couldn't be more wrong, and with the greatest respect,you are showing a COMPLETE lack of knowledge and understanding of the mass of ordinary Working-Class Londoners and how we lived.

The Dog-Tracks I frequented were full of Greeks and Turks and Cypriots ( both sides of The Island) and what a great craic it was too.:)-D

Seriously, I'm not mocking or laughing AT you at all but if you knew East Lane or Walworth or South-East London then we were all as one.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

I think TLS probably didn't think your family was immigrant when he sided with your support for the market....

Atila has mentioned his Turkish-Cypriot ancestry several times lately so you are completely wrong H. but it gets better..

Hugeonot: Still laughing very very hard. Eyes watering :))

Your eyes are watering so much you must have MISSEDD what Atila wrote IMMEDIATELY above your comment!

There's a CLUE there in the final line..wink/wink...

Atila: "My late father arrived in London in 1955 & as a matter of choice chose to mix with other Turkish Cypriots in the various shady gambling dens & card schools in both North & South East [he later opened his own dodgy card school above a shop we owned in Peckham]. He once explained to me the reason he mixed with his fellow islanders was because they spoke the same language, had the same culture, same religous beliefs, etc & felt no kinship with Londoners of another race, colour, or creed. I on the other hand was born and bred in London, have some affinity with Turkish Cypriots for obvious reasons but also for obvious reasons,namely shared experiences and so on, I'M MORE AT HOME WITH PEOPLE BORN & BRED HERE.....

Which part of that last line do you not understand H??

[Huguenot]

Well yes Tony, but then Atila did point out this is Dad didn't veer towards mixers - so could hardly be described 'as one'.

Quite specifically Atila did not note a very English/British feel to the place in the 60s, but (and I quote) 'The market is not as it used to be as the mix of races, cultures, since that time has changed'

So that'll be a mix of races and cultures. Geddit? A mix of races and cultures

So that'll also be not quite an English/British feel in the 60s then?

As for the Brixtonians, in the 70s (forty years ago) it was no more British than it is now.

So if you're harking back to 100 years ago I take it you're skipping the post war period and actually getting all Jeeves and Wooster on us?

The affection seems to be as emphatic as the fabrication here?

[Huguenot]

Now you've got me laughing again... :))

"there is little demand for traditionally English "Fruit 'n Veg" in that area now"

ho ho

I mean, when did he say that, 1932?

guffaw

Did all the respectable little immigrant cultures in 1950 come in and speak proper like with bowler hats and tweed jackets? Meat and two veg back then? It's only their kids who are disrespectin'?

Splutter, hoot....

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

Well yes Tony, but then Atila did point out this is Dad didn't veer towards mixers - so could hardly be described 'as one'.

Quite specifically Atila did not note a very English/British feel to the place in the 60s, but (and I quote) 'The market is not as it used to be as the mix of races, cultures, since that time has changed' So that'll be a mix of races and cultures. Geddit? A mix of races and cultures> So that'll also be not quite an English/British feel in the 60s then?

I'm laughing even more loudly now as you AGAIN have missed the point, a different point this time.

I stand to be corrected but why don't we allow Atila to let us know what he meant?? ( I'm pretty sure Atila was asmirably clear, personally) but we will put this dialogue, in abeyance, until Atila is around .

For the record Huguenot, THIS is what Atila said:

"The market is not as it used to be as the mix of races, cultures, since that time has changed markedly so the demand for the products that the stalls used to sell is not in demand as much as they used to be..."

Now I take that to mean THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF YOU, in that Atila was saying, well EXACTLY what he was, in fact, saying, i.e. the "mix of races, cultures has changed markedly etc.....

Lets allow Atila to speak and see which one of us did or did not "GEDDIT"...

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

"there is little demand for traditionally English "Fruit 'n Veg" in that area now" ho ho I mean, when did he say that, 1932?

guffaw

Whatever opium you are on today, please send some over "post hocte prompt" Huguenot! HE did NOT say that anywhere, at any time!!! I said that! and if you go down East Lane Market, as I did recently, there wee NO traditional "English Fruit 'n veg" stalls. Are you out of the Country or something?:))

Huguenot: Did all the respectable little immigrant cultures in 1950 come in and speak proper like with bowler hats and tweed jackets? Meat and two veg back then? It's only their kids who are disrespectin'? Splutter, hoot....

Keep taking that stuff Hugy Baby!:)-D

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Before I go out, for a while, and to avoid any ambuguity this is what YOU said..

"Quite specifically Atila did NOT note a very English/British feel to the place in the 60s, but (and I quote) 'The market is not as it used to be as the mix of races, cultures, since that time has changed'

My intrepretation is that he feels there WAS a very English/British feel in the 1960's and the " mix of races, cultures, since that time has changed markedly so the demand for the products that the stalls used to sell is not in demand as much as they used to be"

I believe Atila is saying that there is NOT the demand for traditional English/British products now because of this change...

Lets see who is right, shall we M8?

[macroban]

East Street as I remember it in the 195Os and 1960s was as Tony described it.

I must be wrong as Huguenot has read something different.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

macroban Wrote:

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> East Street as I remember it in the 195Os and

> 1960s was as Tony described it.

>

> I must be wrong as Huguenot has read something

> different.

I'm certain Atila will verify this as well when he responds.

Thinking only today while at my local (quiet) shopping area that it is 26 years since I moved and yet so much of me belongs and pines for that area because of the stimulation and "buzz" and vitality that East Lane/Walworth Road generates.

[Sherwick]

Let us not forget that pure white english people also demand more exotic produce these days... isn't curry the national dish of england now?

[Huguenot]

I wasn't there MacRoban. Was there a Scottish feel as well? A real melting pot it would seem.

Is TLS in his sixties? I'm surprised that he would have been too aware of 'culture' from the bottom of a pram, or box, or whatever they kept children in then. Must be something about education eh? Ask a five year old these days about culture and you'd not get much sense.

I don't have any quibble about your memories, I'm just seeking clarification by what Tony means by English/British if that group also includes Cypriots? Does it also include Indians or Jamaicans?

I understand that there was a government committee in the 50's set up to monitor non-white immigration.

Hence if by English/British you simply mean 'white' (and it doesn't matter if you're Scottish or Cypriot), then I have no doubt S London was predominantly white.

So if English/British can include Cypriot, then what does it exclude Tony?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

Is TLS in his sixties?

No. Not for another 5 years.

Huguenot:I'm surprised that he would have been too aware of 'culture'

I remember Britain being at the forefront in The Arts, Photography, Comedy, Fashion and Music.

Not bad for a small Island and I remember that people from all over the World wanted to experience the London lifestyle in the "Swinging Sixties"

Huguenot: what Tony means by English/British if that group also includes Cypriots? Does it also include Indians or Jamaicans?

It included the 1% who were not born here, if they regarded themselves as British.

So you are right in saying the London populace was "predominatly white" ..almost exclusively in many parts of London.

Not aware anyone is excluded from being British other than those who do not wish to be called British.

Huguenot, I doubt its very different from where you now reside. I'm sure people embrace you wherever you go.

However if the White/Brits became the overwhelming majority in some areas where you now live, I doubt if many of the locals will be too enthusiastic about seeing their own Culture be diluted to the extent that it could disappear in many parts, altogether.

Do you think that the majority of the local population where you now live would be happy if they became a significant minority in those same areas over, say, the next 50 years?

[Huguenot]

So essentially, your view is that England was better before we had anyone come to the country who wasn't born here, and then it all went downhill?

Sort of 'Britain for the British pre 1950 and only 1% of the immigrants'?

In fact, to quote the BNP, perhaps you'd agree that improvements could be made if one was: "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948".?

Just wanted to get that straight. ;-)

I'm sad to say that people who hate foreigners just for being foreign exist all over the world Tony. There is a special place for them in hell.

I'm glad that there are none to be found on this forum.

[Huguenot]

I'm interested TLS, how far should one be allowed to roam from home, before it's considered illegal(in miles)?

How much variation in opinion is one allowed before one is considered seditious and imprisoned?

How much should I be forced to share your opinion before I too can be considered British?

How far can one disagree with one's government before one is considered worthy of deportation?

How much of a suntan before one is a traitor to one's race?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

How long will you take to answer my question?

p.s I see this dialogue is following the inevitable pattern in that:

1/ You intrepret my posts in anywhichway you desire, irrespective of my input.

2/ I answer every one of your questions.

3/ You fail to answer my questions.

No-one can say you are not reasonable H!

BTW: The questio was "Would the majority of people living where you are now be happy should they become a significant monority in those same areas, if that happened over the next 50 years?

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> I'm interested TLS, how far should one be allowed

> to roam from home, before it's considered

> illegal(in miles)?

>

> How much variation in opinion is one allowed

> before one is considered seditious and

> imprisoned?

>

> How much should I be forced to share your opinion

> before I too can be considered British?

>

> How far can one disagree with one's government

> before one is considered worthy of deportation?

>

> How much of a suntan before one is a traitor to

> one's race?

Ludicrous, nonsenical questions H.

I've already explained that everyone is British if they are born here, provided THEY THEMSELVES regard themselves as British.

Once again, thats obviously NOT the response you were looking for, so that response has rendered those 5 hypothetical questions as completely irrelevant,

[Huguenot]

I'm not sure what you mean by minority though TLS?

Do you mean a minority by skin colour, by religion, by political affiliation, by favourite colour, pop band or football team or what?

We're all already in minorities of 'one' by who we are as individuals - everything else is a compromise. We jog along together and try to get along and get things done.

The question is how far one wants to compromise, what are the triggers that send one into a genocidal funk, and do they have any basis in rational judgment?

[Huguenot]

I guess I set my values by moderation, inclusivity, open mindedness, constructive teamwork and ambition.

Because none of these involve race, religion, food, language, division, supremacy or subordination I tend to share them with most of the world's population.

As a result no-one who shares these leanings will ever feel that they're in minority.

If I found myself in an environment where I was surrounded by prejudice and destructive, isolationist colonial jingoism then I guess I wouldn't be happy.

[Sherwick]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> So essentially, your view is that England was

> better before we had anyone come to the country

> who wasn't born here, and then it all went

> downhill?

>

> Sort of 'Britain for the British pre 1950 and only

> 1% of the immigrants'?

>

> In fact, to quote the BNP, perhaps you'd agree

> that improvements could be made if one was:

> "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of

> non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal

> changes, negotiation and consent the

> overwhelmingly white makeup of the British

> population that existed in Britain prior to

> 1948".?

Oh no no no! This is not our Tony's view at all - just some other hypothetical person's point of view, or some friend's/an acquaintance?s point of view. Tony has lots of multi-coloured friends, don't worry about that.

[Tony.London Suburbs]

Huguenot, fascinating though your values are, that is not what I asked.

You may not have noticed but Asians in England tend to choose to socialise, primarily, with other Asians.

Now kindly substitute "Asians" for Black Guys or Jewish people or Chinese people or East Europeans etc etc.

They, invariably, tend to share a similar culture with others who were either born in the same Country as them or there descendents were.

Sooooo, back to my question to you, still unanswered ( no change there then) Do you think the local inhabitants where you currently live would like it if they became a numerical minority in their Country?

Perhaps you could give me a very rough breakdown of the percentage of population of the different ethnic groups currently residing where you are? It would be appreciated.

[????]

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