Lions...Saturday

[Narnia]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Which was exactly my point about the british press

> a few posts ago.

Frankly the 'English' press have little to write about given there are so few English players involved. As for whatever it's called, it is a sick offence. I was told an interesting story about the Australia v France WC Final in Cardiff a few years ago and I have no reason to disbelieve the source. In the first half John Eales complained to the ref that the French were gouging. Come half time nothing had changed. Eales told the ref that unless it was sorted they would not reappear for the second half. This was referred to the French captain, who told his team to play like men. It did the trick and put an end to the gouging. Australia won of course.

My first experience of 'cheating' came as a shock to me. My local rugby club entered a team in the summer soccer league. I was like 15 or so and fast, but light. I was playing with grown men. After a tackle where both me and my opponent fell to the ground I was astounded that being as fit as I was then, I was unable to get back to my feet as my opponent, a heavy chap, used his body to make sure I couldn't move.

I have much more respect for rugby payers than footballers who fall over and make a meal of it as often as possible.I hope, that even in the professional era rugby does not lose the one thing that makes it different, you have a drink with your opponent after a match.I know the Lions and the South Africians will be doing so tonight.

It's a great game, just keep it clean please!

[Mick Mac]

Its a great game Declan - but a dirty game too - not just in respect of dirty goings on in the rucks but also its a game where teams actively try to break the rules to get an advantage, if they do this successfully and con the referree its seen as a good thing.

I remember Neil Back knocking the ball out of Peter Stringer's hand as he was about to put it into the scrum in a Heineken Cup Final - blatent cheating.

Or Finlay Calder's forearm smash into Jim Staples' nose in the 1991 world cup game.

Its a tough game that I love to watch from the comfort of my armchair. I respect those guys who play it enormously for their skill and bravery, but the referee's job is a tough one, to keep the various types of "cheating" in check.

[Brendan]

By pointing out meal-making of the media coverage I?m by no means condoning the Burger?s actions, I don?t think any South African would (except our esteemed coach of course), I just spoke to my mom back home who described it as, ?Bloody stupid especially for a respected player at that level.? I don?t think I can sum it up better.

Personally I?m very conservative when it comes to playing sport within the spirit of the rules, which is why I don?t bother watching soccer even though I grew up playing it.

I find cricket and rugby are played for the most part within the spirit of the rules I suppose this is also what makes it seem so unforgivable when serious and obvious transgression does happen.

[Narnia]

The theme of your post Brendan (IMO) is that it is a game you love like a lot of people and we really don't want to be debating foul play, just good rugby.I remember watching some tri nations match years ago and being in awe of it's physicality (spelt incorrectly no doubt). It brought rugby to a new level. Lets hope we never get to the stage where the players have to play in gear like American footballers do. Well done to the Lions for winning today albeit a little late. Shame that people were priced out of attending the games though. If you ever get to watch the BaBa's v the All Blacks in 73, which is sometimes shown on ESPN classics you will see the greatest match I've ever seen.

[Mick Mac]

Lions can take loads of positives from this tour.

Lions 74 - 63 Boks

[matthew123]

Great end to the tour with lots of running rugby from the Lions - yes I guess we can take a series points victory on our aggregate score. The Lions played a lot better in the 3 Tests than I'd expected - and if they had their time again then they'd have picked a team to win the series proper.

[bignumber5]

our timing to suddenly pull out the champagne rugby was odd, but better late than never!

[Mick Mac]

matt. Do you think they did not pick a team to win the series? I think they picked the right teams with possible exception of being too slow to react to the scrummaging crisis in the first test.

[matthew123]

During the tour McGeechan made it clear that selection for the Tests would be based on performances, hence why Shane Williams was not even on the bench for the First Test. Picking the players who performed best against the Super 14 sides (who were minus players in the Springboks squad) is fine when all players are equal but otherwise it is flawed.

Of course the team selected for each Test was intended to win, but if the management had their time again I'd hope they'd be driven a bit more by capability than just form.

[david_carnell]

At the forum drinks on sat, BN5 and I had a rather drunken discussion on the future of international rugby and specifically the Lions. Whilst these tests have been hugely enjoyable some new thinking emerged from the bottom of our glasses:

GB&Ireland isn't a wide enough pool. The basis should be a "Northern Hemisphere" team. It would be open to French and Italian players.

Their opposition would be a "Southern Hemisphere" team that would be a mix of the Tri-Nations and maybe the Argies (if any of them were good enough).

There would be an annual game.

It would alternate venues yearly between the two hemispheres.

The coach of the teams would be the coach who had won the respective tournaments (6 nations or Tri-nations) most recently.

It would be the annual showcase game for the two "styles" of rugby.

I think that's about as far as we got. The fans should like it. As should TV. What say the XV a side fans of the EDF?

[Narnia]

How much did you say you had to drink David?

[matthew123]

The only way the French would buy in to it as if we wore the Frenck kit and all player interviews were conducted in French

[Mick Mac]

People saying that the first 2 teams contained poor selections are presumably basing this on the performance of Saturday's team against a much weaker Spingbok 15 than played in the first 2 matches.

The win on Saturday is nothing more than a bit of consolation and the fact that the Lions won so easily just makes me feel that the Springbok team from Saturday was significantly weaker than the team that won the series.

What the Lions can take away from this series is that it contested at the highest possible level the first two tests and lost out by only a few points. The scrum in the fist test and the second half injuries in the second test were the difference and a team that is made up of a number of different nationalities will always be at a disadvantage in trying to get the right mix when playing against a team that has won the world cup and pretty much has a settled side.

The Lions concept is much stronger after this tour than it was going into this tour, many thought they would not be able to compete, but the Boks got a real test.

I think its always good to debate how to change things for the better, but I hope David and BN5's idea of adding the French does not materialise as I think this Lions squad gave an excellent account of themselves and I look forward to the next one.

[bignumber5]

Declan Wrote:

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> How much did you say you had to drink David?

we were a tad worse for wear, it must be admitted... we realised at the time that it'd never be likely to come to fruition, but it'd be a bloody good game, wouldn't it?!