Labour Leadership

[Loz]

ratty Wrote:

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> Sad isn't it? Perhaps it's time to take the streets again? We did it in the 80s and it

> ultimately did for Thatcher!

Rubbish. I arrived in this country and three days later she resigned. It was all my doing.

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

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> ratty Wrote:

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> > Sad isn't it? Perhaps it's time to take the

> streets again? We did it in the 80s and it

> > ultimately did for Thatcher!

>

> Rubbish. I arrived in this country and three days

> later she resigned. It was all my doing.

She was in Maastricht if I remember when she heard

that she hadn't won the first ballot by enough.

The BBC political guy said we wouldn't be seeing her

but we all shouted "she's behind you".

[ratty]

Loz Wrote:

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>

> Rubbish. I arrived in this country and three days

> later she resigned. It was all my doing.

You are now officially a hero!

[????]

Although Corbyn?s press aides claimed the meeting had been positive, one MP rang the Guardian to describe it as ?a complete and utter shambles and the worst meeting I have ever seen for the party leadership. The problem is that Jeremy has never met anyone in his life that disagrees with him and he runs away from any discussion or political argument; he is completely unsuited to being a party leader.?

:)

[Blah Blah]

Yet another gaff that the Conservatives will be able to exploit. The inexperience and niaivity of the Corbyn/ Mcdonnell partnership is startling. I don't give Corbyn even 18 months if it continues like this.

Polly Toynby made a good point in saying that Corbyn is so used to opposing everything, that he has no idea how to unify.

[????]

..and the madness continues. It's the complete amatuerishnes let alone the outdated ideology.

http://www.cityam.com/226587/labour-to-city-were-just-not-that-into-you

God help us all, including the poorest, if these clowns ever get near to power

[JohnL]

The answer is that it's still huge and debt itself has doubled since 2010 (that's what you are supposed to say).

The charter can never and will never work - the government lies - the opposition is amateur.

But it doesn't matter once ttip comes in - government then stops mattering - as the EU trade commissioner said "I do not take my mandate from the european people" :)

[Blah Blah]

Yes TTIP is worrying. It will open the way for NHS privatisation from a country that has the most expensive healthcare in the West. There have been recent examples of corporations buying up drug patents in the USA and then increasing the price of those drugs by up to 10 times. And it's alarming to note that in looking for solutions to the cost of NHS care, the government have looked to how things work in the USA, rather than looking at other European countries that have state and private healthcare combined. It's clear to me which model the Government prefers.

There is sense in Mcdonnell opposing Osbourne's bill. Borrowing for consumption and investment are not the same thing and Osbourne is trying to say they are. The amatuerism from him is on blurring the lines of good economics. We don't borrow to buy food, but we do borrow to buy a house. That makes sense because the house is an asset. The food is consumption. In the same vein, a business will borrow to build a factory and buy plant machinery. They are assets against the loan. So when Mcdonnell argues that removing the ability for a government to borrow for investment and capital projects is a bad idea, he is right.

What is amaturish from both him and Corbyn though, is the way they go about things.

[????]

Agree about the Bill totally politically driven and wrong (Osbourne is by the way a secret fan of Gordon brown and his politicisation of legislation as this shows). Labour obligingly walked into it though. Sadly this government will get away with this sort of thing until Labour sorts itself out which a ' group of shabby old men living out their adolescent political fantasy' don't look like achieving. Principled (yawn) as they are.....

[Jah Lush]

No doubt you'll have seen this as it went viral last week but I really don't know what she's got to moan about, she voted for the bastards. Shame on her.

 

[Otta]

No not shame on her. She did what she thought was best for her and her kids. That's how most people vote at the end of the day. Unfortunately for her she swallowed their line and thought they'd look out for someone like her who worked hard, because that's what they like to tell us.

[Blah Blah]

And Cameron DID say he WOULDN'T cut child tax credits (to match Labours pledge). She voted for someone who lied about something that really makes a difference to her. But (according to Daily Politics today) it looks as though the move is going to be blocked by the Lords, because it wasn't part of the manifesto, so Osbourne might be forced to change something. Apparently 71 Tory MPs sit in marginal seats where this policy might have an adverse effect, and they are worried.

[Jah Lush]

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag237/jahlushhead/12109266_10153711593138493_2628899368328293186_n_zps8lr5usba.jpg

[Loz]

I thought the best version of on the woman on QT's complaint was: "I knew they were going to cut benefits - I didn't think they would cut MY benefits..."

[Blah Blah]

The clue might have been in 'we will make ?12bn in further cuts but aren't telling you which benefits will be cut'!

The whole steel plant thing is a scandal esp as we could have kept them in business building rails for HS2. Shades of Atlas Shrugged there. It's a bit like Conway shipping kerb stones from China isn't it. Where is the backing for British business? We happily borrow trilions to bail out the city, but let the last remnants of industry go to the wall.

[miga]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag237/jahlushh

> ead/12109266_10153711593138493_2628899368328293186

> _n_zps8lr5usba.jpg

It's a darn shame to see people lose jobs, but are you sure the kind of steel produced in the shut plants would have been suitable for that purpose? IIRC there are many different types and it isn't trivial to move from producing one type to another. Just a thought.

[JohnL]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> The clue might have been in 'we will make ?12bn in

> further cuts but aren't telling you which benefits

> will be cut'!

>

> The whole steel plant thing is a scandal esp as we

> could have kept them in business building rails

> for HS2. Shades of Atlas Shrugged there. It's a

> bit like Conway shipping kerb stones from China

> isn't it. Where is the backing for British

> business? We happily borrow trilions to bail out

> the city, but let the last remnants of industry go

> to the wall.

Still seem desperate to keep Port Talbot open - wonder

how long that can go on.

[JohnL]

miga Wrote:

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> ead/12109266_10153711593138493_2628899368328293186

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> It's a darn shame to see people lose jobs, but are

> you sure the kind of steel produced in the shut

> plants would have been suitable for that purpose?

> IIRC there are many different types and it isn't

> trivial to move from producing one type to

> another. Just a thought.

Is relying on Chinese steel a good thing though. Surely

they'll put the price up once they get a monopoly.

British Steel used to be high quality IIRC

[*Bob*]

He won't be the last..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34577720

[Jah Lush]

He was practically a Tory. He won't be missed. Good riddance.

[miga]

JohnL Wrote:

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> > It's a darn shame to see people lose jobs, but

> are

> > you sure the kind of steel produced in the shut

> > plants would have been suitable for that

> purpose?

> > IIRC there are many different types and it

> isn't

> > trivial to move from producing one type to

> > another. Just a thought.

>

> Is relying on Chinese steel a good thing though.

> Surely

> they'll put the price up once they get a

> monopoly.

>

> British Steel used to be high quality IIRC

It's not "better" or "worse" but different types for different purposes, with different production stages and different compositions (as it's an alloy). I'm not a metallurgist, though.

As to whether it's right or wrong that we're happy for others to do not only our factory line production, but also increasingly "knowledge work (engineering, construction, IT)"; I think it's a disaster. In fact, I think that knowledge is very undervalued in our society.

[DaveR]

"He was practically a Tory. He won't be missed. Good riddance....."

which is exactly the message that Corbyn and his supporters are giving to the millions of voters who chose Labour when it was led by Blair, but then chose the Tories led by Cameron over Ed. A perfect strategy for getting back into government. Not.

[*Bob*]

The division line for 'practically a Tory' seems moving all the time.

This is Year Zero. There are Tories everywhere. We must be vigilant.

[dogcatdog]

JohnL Wrote:

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> miga Wrote:

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> http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag237/jahlushh

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> > >

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> ead/12109266_10153711593138493_2628899368328293186

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> >

> > It's a darn shame to see people lose jobs, but

> are

> > you sure the kind of steel produced in the shut

> > plants would have been suitable for that

> purpose?

> > IIRC there are many different types and it

> isn't

> > trivial to move from producing one type to

> > another. Just a thought.

>

> Is relying on Chinese steel a good thing though.

> Surely

> they'll put the price up once they get a

> monopoly.

>

Market forces will ensure that cannot happen.

rofl

[Blah Blah]

DaveR Wrote:

> which is exactly the message that Corbyn and his

> supporters are giving to the millions of voters

> who chose Labour when it was led by Blair, but

> then chose the Tories led by Cameron over Ed. A

> perfect strategy for getting back into government.

> Not.

I think the SNP took those Labour votes Dave, not the Tories :D The Tories would have a much bigger majority if there had been any significant swing in Labour voters to them.

Some interesting analysis here.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/election-2015-who-voted-for-whom-labour-conservatives-turnout

Totally agree regarding strategy though. Doomed to failure at present.