why have we got a 20mph zone?

[dimples]

I've driven the stretch I mentioned before from dulwich libuary towards forest hill , actually until just before Barcelona / Melford road and nobody in either way has got it down to 20 . 25 can be done but not 20 it's just not happening !

[Milhouse]

I'm currently learning to drive. A mere 15 years after turning 17. I quite like the 20 zone and as a driver have known no different.

I am however, acutely aware that other drivers don't seem to pay the new limit much heed. If I'm pootling along at a law-breaking 23mph, I'm still regularly overtaken or tail-gated by other drivers. I can almost hear them screaming 'bloody learner driver - get it up to 30'. Next time I might stop and let them know that our speed limits are put in place to save lives and improve road traffic safety. No doubt I'll be cheered and carried shoulder high. Huzzah.

[first mate]

On the flat is one thing but it is up and down the quite steep hills in the area that are most problematic. To maintain 20 it means applying brakes most of the way down with other irate drivers pushing to get by, and many cyclists, quite understandably, freewheel down at a much faster speed, often weaving as they go. I think 20 has to apply to all road users to be safe.

[bobbsy]

I agree first mate, that the limit should, and indeed does, apply to all road user.

However as a cyclist, I don't have a speed measurement device on my bike, thus I can only judge the speed limit by how fast other vehicles travel. I would think I'm well exceeding 20mph downhill, but it is a rare event that I pass a car (ie they are all travelling faster than me) unless its approaching a red traffic light.

[first mate]

bobbsy,

I believe you, since very few are adhering to the limit. However, weaving in and out happens a lot and it is hard to maintain the limit, monitor other drivers who don't wnat to, as well as monitor blind spots while also negotiating parked cars/stationary/indicating buses, and when the odd cyclist suddenly whizzes either side of you to get in front, right in the blind spot.

[Pickle]

I drive along Sydenham Hill a few times a week, it's a real problem. On my two trips along it last night I had people pull crazy overtaking manoeuvres, one causing traffic coming the other way to swerve. There is a lot of aggression from drivers who either don't realise, or don't care, about the speed restriction. I try to stay over to the left, and to be honest am probably at about 25 most of the time myself, but it's not nice to have people tailgating, flashing lights and tooting horns.

Also, Brenchley Gardens, another tricky one. Crossing the road has become dangerous, as aggressive passing means cars fly along focused on passing other cars, not pedestrians.

Not sure what the solution is. The speed cameras cause people to slow down, but just for a few metres.

[spider69]

The solution is very simple.

Return to the 30 mph limit which never seemed to present any problems until now.

Remember. People walk on pavements not roads.

When you need to cross use a crossing or as your mother would have told you, "look left, look right and left again" and if all clear cross.

Result less accidents on the road.

Why can today's people not practice this. It is called living in the real world.

As someone mentioned earlier they have not experienced anything much over 20 mph which I find very scary.

Again it all comes down to one thing "common sense and awareness"

[Milhouse]

spider69 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The solution is very simple.

>

> Return to the 30 mph limit which never seemed to

> present any problems until now.

>

> Remember. People walk on pavements not roads.

>

> When you need to cross use a crossing or as your

> mother would have told you, "look left, look right

> and left again" and if all clear cross.

>

> Result less accidents on the road.

>

> Why can today's people not practice this. It is

> called living in the real world.

>

> As someone mentioned earlier they have not

> experienced anything much over 20 mph which I find

> very scary.

>

> Again it all comes down to one thing "common sense

> and awareness"

No need to find it very scary. I've only had a handful of lessons. I'm sure I'll be out and about at higher speed before long.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Milhouse Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> spider69 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The solution is very simple.

> >

> > Return to the 30 mph limit which never seemed

> to

> > present any problems until now.

> >

> > Remember. People walk on pavements not roads.

> >

> > When you need to cross use a crossing or as

> your

> > mother would have told you, "look left, look

> right

> > and left again" and if all clear cross.

> >

> > Result less accidents on the road.

> >

> > Why can today's people not practice this. It is

> > called living in the real world.

> >

> > As someone mentioned earlier they have not

> > experienced anything much over 20 mph which I

> find

> > very scary.

> >

> > Again it all comes down to one thing "common

> sense

> > and awareness"

>

> No need to find it very scary. I've only had a

> handful of lessons. I'm sure I'll be out and about

> at higher speed before long.

But by this logic, why limit the speed to 30? If it's just a case of people looking before the cross, then 40 should be fine right.. if pedestrians are looking and walking on the pavement. Perhaps 50? maybe 60 would be OK?

[spider69]

Why did I know that some one would put a comment up like this.

All it takes is common sense to equate to the surroundings.

Raise the speed limit to 100 mph from Goose Green to Townley Road.

Could you achieve it, no

Common sense

[bobbsy]

First mate, yes sorry, in a roundabout fashion I was trying to say pretty much all the cars exceed 20mph as they are all faster than me up or downhill! 30mph made much more sense for all road users.

[first mate]

Hi Bobbsy,

We agree. 20 mph on residential streets is entirely sensible and I fully support that but on main roads, without adequate enforcement all round, it seems to be creating problems, not solving them. However, it seems that political vanity (manifesto pledges) will always trump commonsense.

[mako]

Forget all the hypothesis of what speeds are safer and look at the reality. the vast majority of those who drive on the '20 was 30' roads feel it is less safe and in Portsmouth which was the basis of the whole idea they have come to the same conclusion and look set to scrap it. it is probably true that if you are hit at 20 your chances are better-but thats no good if the reality is there are more accidents.

[goldilocks]

My main issue with this approach is it completely negates the differences between 'main roads' and side streets. Traffic has no incentive to stay on the major roads and cuts through side streets that are unsuitable for the volume - especially where cars are parked on both sides making visibility poor of anyone crossing. As a child growing up we knew that the traffic on the main roads was something to be especially careful of (these were 30mph roads too), whereas we were able to cross the residential ones where no one really approached 30. I'm supportive of a 20mph limit on the side roads, mainly as a result of the parking down both sides and impact on visibility, but on roads such as East Dulwich Grove and the other main routes it doesn't work.

A second issue is the narrowing of ED Grove supposedly to make it safer for cyclists. I really can't understand this at all - there now isn't room to safely overtake - the obvious argument is then to stay behind the bike, but I think this makes for a fairly intimidating cycle ride (yes I do give plenty of space rather than 'tailing'). Feels a bit like making chickens safe by putting a fox in with them to watch them! ED Grove feels like there are now so many 'hazards' for motorists to take account of - 1) monitoring speed to ensure that the 20mph limit is not being breached, 2)manoeuvring for road humps, tables, crossings, 3) finding a suitable space to pass cyclists if possible etc that I suspect drivers may be less vigilant in terms of pedestrians. This is all before you add in the person tailing your bumper and beeping at you for adhering to the 20mph limit.

[edhistory]

Ian Batcock who is a certified SoSRA who works for AECOM Ltd could do a safety audit.

[Crackerjam]

Audition for the audit!

[TheArtfulDogger]

Admin

What has happened to all the posts that were on here between 5.05 on Friday night and today (Sunday) at 9.05 pm?

[macutd]

what were those posts?