Another sleep problem...

[crystal7]

My 7 month old has never been a good sleeper. we have a good bedtime routine and she is asleep by 7.30 but then wakes up every 2-3 hours every night (apart from the odd one where she just wakes once- out of exhaustion I'm sure). Up until now I have been (breast) feeding her back to sleep. I realise this is a bad habit but anything else I try (shushing, patting, rocking, cuddling) results in her screaming which is quite distressing and counter productive as it wakes her up even more.

She has 4-5 feeds plus 3 meals a day so I'm convinced most of the wakings aren't down to hunger, although I expect the night feeds have an effect on the amount of solid food she eats.

I try to get her to nap in the day as I know this has an impact on night sleep but she often only sleeps for 30 min at a time.

Anyone else had similar experiences? Any advice?! Or is this just how she is?!

Thank you !

[snowboarder]

Hello - yes I have this too - my baby is a bit younger and not on solids yet, but awake every 3 hrs ish and I feed him - so I can only reply in sympathy! I have tried other methods but I do admit a bit half heartedly as am just too tired! Naps are 30 mins too - I have all the books...it's just too hard!

Sorry no help. The current annoyance is it's taking me 45 mins at least to get him back to sleep too!

x

[Citrovie]

Have you tried giving her a bottle of (expressed) milk before bedtime just to make sure she's full? It's probably just comfort feeding she does at night but there is also a small chance that she gets the majority of her calories earlier in the day. Another (tougher, but probably more successful) option is to have your husband/partner do the nighttime soothing for a few nights in a row until the association of feeding and falling asleep is broken. Might be pretty tough on him but it could work (it did for a friend)... Good luck!

[legalbeagle]

I would highly recommend a book by Dr Richard Ferber - how to solve your childs sleep problems. My two year old boy was a dreadful sleeper and this made a big difference. You can get the book on Amazon.

[kristymac1]

'Ferberizing' is a fairly emotive subject, my understanding is that it's a 'controlled' crying method which I know some parents believe works for them but just isn't right for other babies (or parents!) - my daughter and me, my husband are firmly in the latter camp. My daughter (2.5yrs now) has never been a great sleeper and we've tried all sorts of 'methods' and I honestly believe some kids sleep well, some don't it's as simple as that. Other than providing your child with a healthy routine I'm not sure there's much else you can do and dealing with a 'bad sleeper' is just some parents' 'lot'.

That said, you have my every sympathy, I most certainly feel your pain xx

[snowboarder]

Hmm yes - as discussed elsewhere - leaving a baby to cry may well have results...but...well...not for us I don't think! My baby practically has a seizure if you leave him in his cot! I like the no cry sleep solution but just don't have the energy right now to start changing things like breaking the feed to sleep routine and working on getting baby to settle self. Crystal7 it sounds like we have similar issues!

[crystal7]

Thanks for the helpful comments!

I realise that controlled crying works for some but it's not something I could do, little one becomes hysterical if left in cot. In-laws keep telling me to let her cry and have even suggested that the night wakings are my fault because "she must think you're awake anyway"! I've got the no cry sleep solution but like you SB I just don't have the energy at the moment.

[Carrie]

It probably is comfort feeding - try switching to a bottle of formula when she wakes in the night then gradually increase the dilution of the formula over time until she is getting just water - this helped with one of mine who kept waking in the night - also if you are feeding her to sleep when you initially put her down try to give her the last feed before she has a bath so she learns to go to sleep on her own and then has the ability to go back to sleep without feeding. I had twins who were both woke at different times during the night for feeds and at one stage I was getting no more than 45 minutes sleep at a time and I was going for the easy option of breast feeding back to sleep to begin with but my health visitor suggested the above method as a way of preserving what little sanity I had left.

[largeginandtonic]

Hey Crystal & snowboarder...I have been there too. My 4 year old was a really rubbish sleeper - woke loads in the night and really resisted naps. I read all the books and tried loads of 'techniques' in an effort to control her and get her to do what the books said she should or could be doing. None of it worked, she got more and more overtired and I made myself seriously ill. Daytime sleep was a really big problem as I remember, because she could never get through a 40 minute sleep cycle - her little eyes would just ping open and she'd be wide awake, no matter how tired. In the end, I gave up and started co-sleeping and wearing her in a sling for naps. It got better by itself - she woke less at night, the naps started lengthening and she stopped resisting them. I can't remember the exact timings but I think that her night sleep became better (i.e. 1 wake up, quick feed,back to sleep) at around 10 months and she started sleeping through reliably at 2 years. Day sleep got better when she was about 1. She still struggles with sleep and is not a perfect sleeper, but it's fine and a gazillion times better than when she was a baby.

I didn't know it then, but I've since realised that her sleep patterns were entirely normal - not normal for a 'good sleeper' and not what the books say of course, but nonetheless normal.

I now have a 5-month old and I'm much less stressed out by it. He's waking every 3 hours at night and I'm carrying him for his naps. It's OK. It will pass.

As for sleep training, we tried various things with my daughter apart from full blown cry-it-out strategies but she screamed hysterically and everything we tried (including baby whisperer techniques and other ideas from sleep clinics/experts) seemed to make it worse. The idea of putting her down awake but drowsy or leaving her to settle herself was just laughable - she screamed like we were torturing her if she was put down. I'm more open-minded about sleep training no.2 if it comes to that - he has a different personality and doesn't scream like his sister - but I don't think anyone should be pushed into sleep training and I do think it's sad that our society seems so focussed on offering solutions to what are described as problems but what are actually normal sleep patterns. Maybe a bit more acceptance of what is normal and a bit more support for tired mums would be better.

I'm not sure what the point of this long post really is, but I guess I just wanted to say you are definitely not alone.

[legalbeagle]

Sorry all I should have put more detail in my original post about the Ferber book.

I know that controlled crying is an emotive subject, and it's not for everyone. I certainly would never leave either of my children to yell all night, no matter how often my in laws told me I should! My son in particular was a bad sleeper, and I do believe that is just the way he was made.

However, the book is not just about leaving your child to cry. I tend to find lots of people have a view of this book and Ferber's method, even though they haven't actually read his research. The book talks about lots of different reasons why a child might not sleep, phases of sleep and how they are different (why is it that most children nap for 30 - 45 minutes before stirring/waking up?), different ages of children and how that affects their sleep, reasons why a child might wake when you really have tried everything, and much more. His main solution is indeed a form of controlled crying, but it is not as simple as "leave your child in your cot to scream come hell or high water". In fact he specificlly says that is a bad thing to do for both the mother and the child (that's just his view, some may disagree).

I can't really summarise his method here but if you are at your wits end then it might be worth a read. He may have some answers for you without you using his "controlled crying" method. It did for me, and although it didn't solve the problem totally, it definitely helped.

good luck!

[lorraineliyanage]

Have you tried giving her expressed milk whilst she is asleep? My 11 month old daughter goes to sleep around 7.30, and I give her a bottle around 10pm, and if i'm awake around midnight another one then, not much, about 60 mls at each feed and it keeps her going till 8 or 9am. She only has one nap before midday.

[josiebee]

Have you tried letting her go back to sleep in bed with you? Both my kids slept with my husband and myself and eventually grew out of it and moved into their own beds. It means that you really don't notice the night feeds...it sort of becomes self service while mum remains asleep. It's also really nice and cuddly. It helps to have the bed up against a wall so that the baby doesn't sleep between you and your partner but rather on your side. Another system I had when she got a bit bigger was to have lots of cushions on the floor in case she ever fell out....she never did.

[ThePrincessBride]

C7,

7 months is still very young and waking every 2-3 hours is actually relatively normal. You sound like you have a good bedtime routine. I'd suggest you try putting her to bed half hour early 7pm... see if that leads to a longer sleep cycle. If that doesn't work, try the other side of 7.30 and put her to bed at 8pm. Sounds weird, but half an hour either side of too tired or not tired enough had have a big impact. You may have tried this, but sleep in same t-shirt for 2 nights, then slip t-shirt over matriess (if possible) to use as sheet... she will then be able to smell you constantly and feel ore comforted... staying in deeper sleep for longer.

I, personally, don't think there's anything wrong in feeding her. She may well be hungry.... can you actually hear / see her swallowing? If she is, she is definitely waking to eat. If not, it just may be comfort sucking. Either way,perhaps as you see that she is dropping off to sleep, take her off the breast while she is still 'just' awake. Keep holding her for a bit, for the comfort, but do not put her back on the breast if she is crying. She may fall off to sleep and you can put her back in the cot. If she doesn't (and still hungry). Repeat the cycle of putting her back on the breast but taking her off again before she sleeps. It may take a few cycles, and a few nights of trying. But she will get the message that boobie isn''t for sleeping... then may not even wake up for it if she's only doing it for comfort... she'll move on to some other way of waking you! :)

Other thing to try... when you are holding her and feeding (don't rock her... minimal movement)... breath very slowly, taking long deep breaths over her (so she can feel your breath movements). Relax your body as you do this... she will mimic you (natural instinct for babies to match your heart rate and breathing!)and that can help relax her and make her drop back off to sleep. Quite often, mums are anxious and tense when baby wakes (and of course tired and antsy!)... so baby picks up on anxious tense body and quickened breathing... they mimic and become hyper-alert and can't relax... hence excalation to screaming fit. Visious cycle! Stay calm, breath and soothing. Do not turn on the light for night feeds and no talking (no verbal words... just the odd hum to let her know you are there).

Unfortunately, there's no hard and fast easy solution for sleep. Sorry if you've already tried all this and I'm preaching to the converted!

Hope something helps...

[craigy]

My little boy has always been a good sleeper and slept through 12 hours from 7 weeks old (also weighed about 14lbs at this stage which I think had a great deal to do with it and would breastfeed every hour and a half throughout the day) so I do not have a great deal to add on problem solving really. My main issue was daytime sleep which never happened until he was 5 months old.

I bought a book called Healthy sleep habit, happy child by Dr Marc Weissbluth (?sp could be a rather than u) He is an american pead that has studied sleep in children for over 30 years. Admittedly he advocates extinction crying (different to controlled in that you do not go back to them until 1 hour) but he also says nurse them to sleep if need be, rock, pat etc- whatever works...

It is interesting as it talks about the physiology of sleep in children and what is expected when- I cannot remember the ins and outs if it as it is 2 years since I read it..

We had a few issues at night time during weaning when he started feeding in the night again and I remember going to him one night and he breast fed for about 2 minutes and then it became clear he wasn't hungry- he just wanted comfort. We then did the leave to cry thing for the next 2 nights. It was hard, really really hard and took some resolve not to go back in there but after about 45 mins the first night and 20 the next he went back to sleep and normal service resumed...

Leaving them to cry is not for everyone and I felt ok with it as I knew that he was capable of settling himself and going back to sleep and wasn't hungry..

Personally, and this is just my personal view.. all babies are different and some will be better sleepers than others just the same as with adults but i think with babies it becomes habit to wake and feed after a while.. I think that before a certain weight babies do not have the capacity to take on enough calories to last them the night and the later they get to that size the more chance they have had of forming the pattern of night time feeding and waking..

There is no answer to this question really other that you know your baby best and you should do what is comfortable and suits your baby..

Good luck..

x

[curlykaren]

dear crystal 7, my sympathies, I could have written your post myself if I wasn't so exhausted!

My little man is 8 months and four days and has always been a terrible sleeper however I have managed to make a marked improvement to his day time naps which makes things easier knowing that I will get some rest or time to myself during the day. This is what I did.

Spent a couple of days at home so that I could observe his optimum nap times. With him sleeping so bad the morning nap was quite early and he showed signs of needing a nap by about 9 am (depending on waking time, a little later if he woke up after 8) He would have had a big breakast (organic rusks and yogurt). I would take him into my bed, tv on low, curtains closed and BF him to sleep, then I would stay in bed with him, (I have a feeling this was the most important part of the exercise). When he woke up after 30/40mins BF to sleep again, only this time unlatch as soon as he fell asleep, if he would not go back to sleep then spend some time in the bed with him, gentle play, cuddles etc. Generally trying to give the impression that bed was a nice place to be. After a couple of weeks he dropped the second feed in bed but might rouse himself, see me there (probably asleep myself) be comforted by my presence and go back to sleep. Eventually he dropped the waking up and started to sleep for over an hour himself. Now I don't have to be in bed with him or even BF him to sleep for this nap.

Repeat the whole routine for the afternoon nap.

Resist BF baby at other times, ie:associate it with sleeping properly, if you BF for 2 naps, at bed time and during the night this is still plenty of boobie.

Now I might not get both naps spot on every day but I am guaranteed at least one of them being an hour and a half, if he misses morning nap or only has a short time then the pm nap can be two hours.

This process took about a month but quite frankly I needed the rest myself so was happy to go back to bed a couple of times a day. I firmly believe that he had got into the habit of waking and needed to be taught how to sleep, night feeds are now down to three rather than the usual five, which was an absolute KILLER!

good luck, hope it helps, Karen x