East Dulwich in the New Statesman

[pepsi]

???? Wrote:

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> >

> sounds like a change in behaviour identified in

> some rigourous research to me

No - just an observation shared by many (including by many parents I must add).

[????]

so in actual fact, opinion...ok, thanks

[*Bob*]

I think this diagram illustrating current thinking helps explain things, ????.

[legalbeagle]

> Oh come on, what a daft response - parents being

> "exhausted, stressed, worrying about the baby

> sleeping, worrying about finances" etc. You don't

> need academic research to tell you that these

> things are hardly a 21st century malady. Some

> people behave as if having children has only just

> been invented!

But Pepsi the point is that is hasn't happened to that person before. Cimbing mountains, falling in love, overcoming illness, adopting children, curing diseases, flying at the speed of sound, having a child - it's all been done before. Does that mean we can dismiss the novelty and difficulties that each of us find when we ourselves do them for the first time? Are we to be chastised for making a fuss about coping with grief on the basis that others have done it before us? On your logic you should just "get over" other people being rude to you - after all people have been rude for years?

[pepsi]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> so in actual fact, opinion...ok, thanks

Observation isn't the same as opinion ????.

Legalbeagle - I take your point, I really do and I appreciate that everyone's response to major life events is bound to be different but I frequently come across a lack of awareness and respect for others on the part of some, which I just don't think existed on such a large scale a few years ago, and which is not just restricted by the way to middle class ED parents. The point here being that yes, people have been rude for years but perhaps not in such huge numbers.

[legalbeagle]

Well Pepsi it would be a huge shame if you are right - though if it's your observation then it can hardly be "wrong". Perhaps I have been fortunate enough only to meet more polite people in ED recently!

[Gimme]

Perhaps people these days think that as everyone else is going to be rude they might as well too.

I often find that people have their guard up in London in a way that doesn't exist in other places I go regularly.

Every time I go to Edinburgh, my whole outlook changes as I assume that everyone will be friendly until proven otherwise. In London it's the opposite - I'm often guilty of assuming that people are going to be unfriendly until proven otherwise. And that's probably the way a lot of people are, which is why a lot of people come across as rude and arrogant, when they are probably not deep down.

Perhaps everyone reading this thread should try an experiment - catch the eye of people as you pass them in Lordship Lane and say hello and see what the reaction is. It will confuse the life out of a lot of people who will look at you with suspicion but you might get a few pleasantly surprised looks

Or an even more radical experiment - out of the blue say excuse me to an ED mum, tell her you are thinking of buying a Bugaboo and would she recommend it and see if the hard exterior breaks out into the light of friendliness. It probably will.

[The Nappy Lady]

Interestingly when I moved to London 13/14 years ago I expected people to be unfriendly, but actually I found it just the opposite. Especially the people in my road, there is a real neighbourhood support network, and since I have been a Mum - most parents too. Yes you meet exceptions, as you would anywhere, and in any social group but overall I'd say it is a very friendly place. Oh and on good days, when not harrassed I do walk along smiling at people and they do indeed smile back!

Molly

[Moos]

Gimme Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Or an even more radical experiment - out of the

> blue say excuse me to an ED mum, tell her you are

> thinking of buying a Bugaboo and would she

> recommend it and see if the hard exterior breaks

> out into the light of friendliness. It probably

> will.

One of the very nice things about having a baby in tow is that total strangers do talk to you, and barriers immediately break down. There's no compliment like having someone tell you how sweet your baby is. Many new mothers feel isolated and struggle to find others to spend time with during the day (if you don't believe me, read some of the family discussion room threads), and would be very happy to make friends, even if only for a few minutes.

[Moos]

Interesting cross-post with Molly there! :)

[Nero]

*

Thanks for that! It's like a pissed-up version of the ATV credits!

[woofmarkthedog]

Like *Bob* illustrated so succinctly.

W**F

[LegalEagle-ish]

Does anyone wonder what it will be like when they all turn into teenagers? Will all the teenagers be like the parents, studying hard and working towards having a career, or just live off their elderly parents waiting for them to pop their crocks and hand them their money?

[iaineasy]

whilst I have no real opinion on this article or whether EDM's deserve this kind of slating( I have found every one of them that I have met to be very lovley indeed and I dont drink coffee from nero) I would like to applaude bob for his creative diagram because that takes all the aspects of this whole debate and makes it very funny indeed with out the chit chat!! well done BOB

hugs as ever.

[arriety]

I just don't understand the obsession with stereotyping mothers? replace the word mother with anything and the whole thing looks like the nonsense it is. We have come a long way in terms of removing prejudice and stereotype and racism and so on, but for some reason one of the few places its really ok to completely slag off a group is when women become mothers. Prams exist, pavements are narrow, people (not just mothers) have good days and bad days, get over it. Why would a group of any kind care to notice a bloke out on his own having a coffee!?

[eater81]

That article is great! Couldn't have put it better myself. Piss of with your mountain biked tyred prams and your long haired simpering brats. If you were really decent parents you wouldnt be bringing your kids up in this open sewer of a city.

[????]

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[????]

Eater's been on the sauce again. That's when the intolerable injustice of his shitty life comes bubbling over...on the internet of course.

[eater81]

My life is shit, but no shitter, indeed maybe better than most other people's, however I cannot suffer fools in the same way that others can. That is why I act like such an arsehole, its my only way of keeping myself sane and gaining some kind of perverted pleasure from life. Incidentally, the only sauce I had last night was tobasco on my tea.

[SeanMacGabhann]

So that's ok then

[Magpie]

I see no reason to apologise for a lack of Jamaicans and Irish in East Dulwich, nor to apologise for being middle class and white.

As to mothers with buggies being rude. I was brought up to be considerate to people in more difficult circumstances than myself. This means that it is good manners to give way to the elderly, the infirm, those with disabilities, and unsurprisingly the pregnant, and those with young children. Assuming that a person looking after a child should get out the way of an able bodied adult is rude, and complaining about it is bad manners. Harden the f**k up.

[woofmarkthedog]

eater81 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My life is shit, but no shitter, indeed maybe

> better than most other people's, however I cannot

> suffer fools in the same way that others can. That

> is why I act like such an arsehole, its my only

> way of keeping myself sane and gaining some kind

> of perverted pleasure from life. Incidentally, the

> only sauce I had last night was tobasco on my tea.

___________________________________________________________________

The whole catering sized bottle I take it ?

W**F

[Brendan]

Not that I intend to come across confrontational or old fashioned or whatever but isn?t the most worrying thing about this the borderline aggression being shown by men towards women? I can just about understand it from other women towards women but where I grew if a man displayed that sort of aggression towards a woman they would, justifiably, get quite badly hurt.

I dunno maybe it?s ok if it?s online or something.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Plus ca change, eh Brendan?

[Brendan]

Yeah yeah, inappropriate comments about plunging necklines and fukboots are a completely different story Sean.