Child abuse - Ireland's Catholic shame

[dulwichmum]

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[vinceayre]

You have missed the point I am making.

I am not standing up for the catholic church or condoning what has been done to people in its name. I was bought up catholic and went to an all boys catholic school so i know what it is like from the inside and now I do not believe in God or any religion for that matter because they are all controlling and I believe in personal freedom from any type of dogma.

What I am saying is how come it is ok to slate the catholic church but not Islam or Judaism or one particular race without being vilified by all.

[mockney piers]

Because the Catholic church isn't Christianity (though obviously it like to think it is). It's criticising an organisation, not a concept or a religion or its adherents.

It is not the same thing at all.

It's like criticising the Finsbury Park mosque for not dealing with the Islamists that almost took over there. That isn't criticing islam, it's criticising a place that permitted preaching of hatred within it's doors.

Likewise criticising the actions of Israel's government casts no aspersions on its citizens, and is most certainly not slating Judaism. In case you hadn't noticed it's a secular democracy.

[Mick Mac]

The Catholic church gives a lot of support to a lot of people.

The st vincent de paul society is an example of the good that they do for the poor in the catholic community.

The majority of people within it are well meaning but unfortunately they teach people to have blind faith in God, the priesthood and the dogma. Thex are unwilling to change their teachings to deal with the modern challenges such as aids in africa and therefore there is a genuine question mark as to whether they do more harm than good.

Of course they should not get state funding for education as children are then brainwashed with their teachings and of course if taught in school then children accept it as something they should learn and accept. Children trust teachers and teachers teach them to trust priests. Schools have great power to influence children and there should therefore be no state funded religious schools. Religion should be for families to teach in the home if so inclined. And of course priests should be made an example of if they abuse their power. Im hoping long sentences are handed out to the priests of dublin, and anywhere else it arises.

[dulwichmum]

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[womanofdulwich]

wow Dulwich Mum- you must have had some terrible experience with Catholicism? You sound like one of those ex smokers!

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[Santerme]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

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> wow Dulwich Mum- you must have had some terrible

> experience with Catholicism? You sound like one of

> those ex smokers!

> .

I thought it was just me thinking it was OTT

[dulwichmum]

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[stereforth]

Thanks, Dulwichmum, for the info on that old fraud Padre Pio. Sorry if you felt offended by my mentioning De Valera, but for decades he was probably the most prominent figure keeping Ireland in cultural backwardness. It is not enough to condemn the Catholic church for its criminal acts. One needs to understand why this came about. It is sad how far some people will go to lift their own children out of poverty.

Yesterday's Guardian has a good article on abuse at boys' schools run by the Christian Brothers:

see

By the way, I am not biased against the Catholic Church. I detest all religions and all state funding of faith schools.

Long live Richard Dawkins I say.

[monica]

Slightly offended about Padre Pio being an old fraud, We all have a right to express an opinion, and that is what makes the EDF so popular. However as a Catholic who grew up in the UK then moving to Italy and going to Mass on a Sunday, and praying to Padre Pio who re-enforced my faith and who I pray to when I need guidance, I take offence to the Padre Pio post.

I do not and would never belittle the faith of others, so please have the same respect. This has nothing to do with the irresponsible sickos who masked themselves as priests to satisfy the sexual urges, remember this happens everywhere not just the catholic church. so leave Padre Pio out of it please.

[dulwichmum]

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[Mick Mac]

You are being insensitive now DM.

[dulwichmum]

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[LegalEagle-ish]

You sound as bad as my mum DM. She hated the Catholic church with a passion. Irish nuns seem to have that effect on a lot of people!

[monica]

dulwichmum Wrote:

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> Yes, I apologise. I should have said;

>

> ?Thou shalt not put false gods before me...

>

> Now, where have I heard that line before?

As i said Dulwichmum we all have a right to our opinion, and I am asking you to respect those who follow their faith.

[Huguenot]

Apparently the popes themselves didn't think very highly of Padre Pio.

Aren't they supposed to be infallible? In fact wouldn't disagreeing with a pope be considered anathema?

In the light of such influential views, one can understand DM believing she had the endorsement of the highest offices of the Catholic faith?

[monica]

Pointless really even bothering with this thread, with all due respect.

[Huguenot]

Sure, sure, it's a bit like that denial thing. In refusing to accept criticism of Padre Pio there is the same abrogation of duty that allowed those terrible crimes to flourishin Ireland.

QED

Here's the quote...

"If anyone thus speaks, that the Roman Pontiff has only the office of inspection or direction, but not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the universal Church, not only in things which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church spread over the whole world; or, that he possesses only the more important parts, but not the whole plenitude of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate, or over the churches altogether and individually, and over the pastors and the faithful altogether and individually: let him be anathema."

[LegalEagle-ish]

To be fair, my brother's wife is still Catholic and it seems that the Catholic church, in th Uk at least, has made a lot of progress since the abuse that my mother was subject to.

[Mick Mac]

I think there is little value in bringing up problems with the church from the past. These priests are a current issue and that is the reason for the thread rather than general catholic church bashing.

[dulwichmum]

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[monica]

No Dulwichmum its not refusal of anything, its actually asking you to be respectful of others, who still have a belief in the faith, it is not refusal, its asking for a little respect. As I said there is no point posting on this thread, I dont enjoy coming on here because of your attacks and the lack of respect you show others, when you have a point to make.

[Narnia]

Monica, DM has stated quite clearly why she doesn't have respect for catholicism. I don't take that to mean she disrespects you.

She is quite entitled to give her opinion though, as are you.

Mick, your point about it being current isn't valid IMO as it covers a period going back a long time. The priests are a big part of the church.

[monica]

Declan Dulwichmum has meant disrespect to me by Disrespecting Padre Pio, I have given up with this thread, because time after time someone will be attacked,this time it is me for speaking my mind.

[Narnia]

Monica, I don't know about Padre Pio. I have a mother in law who is Spanish and prays to many saints depending on what it is she would like.I don't wish to offend you or your beliefs but a prayer from the heart to whoever it is directed to will go to the right place in my opinion. I wish you well but I also understand why DM may feel so bitter. I don't think you should take it personally.