Best place to have a baby: Kings or Tommy's?

[Keef]

Excellent post from Tulip (lots better than the whole "get over it" affair).

I have every symapthy for anyone who has a horror story, but to then say that X hospital is bad as a result of that experience is a nonsense.

To be truthful, I could tell you all a horrific story about Mrs Keef's experience st St Thomas', which she has had to speak to a specialist counsellor/midwife about since. There were one or 2 abrupt/rude midwives, and she was left alone for extended times, and loads of stuff. However, there were also some great staff, and we ended up with a lovely baby, and she chooses to try and look at the whole thing as rather a positive experience.

[Fuschia]

I'm afraid my view is that no hospital is the optimal place to have your baby, given the way the midwives are over-worked, looking after multiple women at a time, and the extent to which it becomes a conveyor belt where one intervention after another is proposed due to an external "clock" rather than a sensitive appraisal of your own individual labour.

I'd choose a homebirth anytime.

Unfortunately that wasn't possible in either of my labours due to a dvt/treatment level of bloodthinning drugs in birth 1 and twins in birth 2. Both times I paid ?4k approx for an independent midwife to deliver baby no 1, and once that was no longer allowed at Kings, to be witrh me as my friend and advocate with the twins.

On both occasions I had a fantastic birth. I am certain my experience of the twins would not have been as positive without my clear birthplan and experienced mws with me to stabnd up for my wishes. We found the postnatal ward awful on both occasions, Mr F was almost removed by security when they tried to make him leave us there at 7am as "fathers are not allowed until 8am"

Both St Thomas's and Guys are excellent hospitals and they do their best but I wouldn't choose to give birth at either of them, to be honest! Routine induction and pressure to have continuous monitoring are only two of their policies that are the beginnning of a cascade of likely intervention, in my view. It's differnet if you have a complication that does require intervention or a surgical delivery, but why start down the road of one intervention after another when birth should be a natural and uncomplicated process?

[Belle]

Fuschia - completely agree. All this makes me hope even more that I get the homebirth next time I wanted last time!

[The Nappy Lady]

Fuschia,

I so agree with you. I really don't think being in hospital is 'safer' than being at home. In both my births I had a midwife with me, exclusively for the entire process, with a 2nd arriving towards the end to back her up. No distractions, no one else to worry about, and I was so reassured by that. It was the over-riding reason for choosing a home birth.

I understand that it is extremely rare for a woman to be 'blue lighted' into hospital from a home birth situation, but if it does happen Kings is so close you can be there in very fast, may even get faster intervention than if in a labour ward with overworked midwives no paying you quite as much attention as they should be (not a dig at the midwives, just the reality of the pressure they are working under). Most of those who end up transferring into hospital do so after a calm and rationale discussion because labour is not progressing, and go in under their own steam.

I remember in my first pregnancy a 'normal' labour was described to me as being a straight line, and that each intervention takes you further away from that line.....in theory you can get back to the line at any point, but as each intervention takes you further away it will get harder and harder to get back. I think this is really key, and it is why I have always been pretty anti induction, because I think it is often the beginning of a slippery slope.

I think if a woman is genuinely scared of labour a will feel safer and more relaxed in hospital then of course she should give birth there, but oterwise far too many people think of it as a medical proceedure rather than a natural process. Of course it is going to hurt, but it is pain with a purpose, and a very worthwhile reward at the end of it.

Sorry you didn't get your home births, but sounds like you got the next-best-thing.

Molly

[Gubodge]

I only have experience of Kings, but know that they are far more flexible than the vast majority of hospitals regarding induction. Most placed still book induction dates for 40 +10 as soon as the woman reaches about a week overdue. Kings were very relaxed about my going over 42 weeks, and they still did not put any presure for me have an induction date booked at 42 +6. I was induced at that point, but only because my daughter's heart rate dropped when she was being monitored.

Child #2 was a home water birth, but I can't honestly say that one experience was significantly better than the other and I had a happy healthy baby result from each. The hippy dippy stuff was nice, but I can argue prety convincingly for the drugged up versions, too. Epidurals are fab! And, for what it's worth, I actually 'bonded' far more quickly with my first daughter.

[sillywoman]

I know the debate's moved on from the Induction process, but I did say I'd post when I got a reply from the HOM at Tommy's. She emailed me yesterday, she said;

dear Sillywoman

the process is for the woman to ideally be admitted to a single room on the Hospital Birth centre (labour ward) and for the induction to be started asap. her partner can be with her.

In reality there are often delays and the women are advised to go for a walk, sit in the day assessment unit or even go home and return when it is quieter.

I certainly wouldn't want women to think that as soon as they come in they get a single room as this will create unrealistic expectations

Obviously we aim to do things in as timely a manner as possible but when it's really busy then the women for IOL tend to get bumped to the end of the queue

hope this clsrifoes it

regards

HOM

Also, from your stories and speaking to a number of women who've been induced in the last few months it seems that Kings has changed it's policy and is allowing partners of women being induced to stay overnight with them. Will check this though this coming week.

All interesting info for those having to make a decision.

[ClareC]

Thank you Sillywoman for posting that response, its certainly reassuring to know that I wasn't misled when I asked the question direct.

I appreciate that there may be a wait for a room, I assumed this to be the case since with an induction you will be low priority at the point of arrival, given you are not actuallly in labour just overdue. Far better their attention is with the one's that need them :-) Its the procedure / policy / treatment from the point of induction onwards that was where my concern lay.

It will be interesting to see what King's response is, I specifically asked them the question too and was told the policy which really didn't suit me as a person - certainly sounds like whatever the actualolicy is, discretion is sometimes used.

[paps]

I had my tour on Tuesday and told the same = that if induced husband can stay so long as i can get into one of the birth centre single rooms - which they didn't see as a problem so long as i called ahead.

I must say that i have been very impressed with the care from St Thomas, you do feel at ease with the midwives and the atmosphere seems to be very relaxed.

I too agree with other peoples comments - its really scary the prospect of having your first baby - this forum is for friendly advice - if you can't offer friendly advice move off the post and don't put others off asking!!! its very unfair, unkind and and basically uncalled for!!!

[sillywoman]

Not sure who you're aiming that post at paps? Cant see any 'unfriendly' advice on this thread (but haven't re-read whole thread recently). Just forumites giving their views based on their experiences and information. Perhaps you'd care to say who you feel was being unfriendly so that they can either defend themselves, or slink off with their tale between their legs?

[paps]

i didn't actually realise that there was 3 pages but i was refering to Tulip at the begiining of this post who i thought was rather unkind - but she did reply again!

[littleEDfamily]

The critical factor for me when deciding where to have a(nother) baby is whether my partner can stay with me all the way through and afterwards. I felt being left alone at Kings (starving!) in the middle of the night directly after giving birth quite a frightening experience and would not have liked to go through any of the labour on my own (ie sans hubby). For that reason, I think it would have to be a homebirth for me next time, so at least I could call the shots. At the risk of sounding like a control freak, I think feeling 'empowered' (overused word, I know) during labour is so important, and unfortunately hospitals are (for some of us anyway) places where you can't help but feel vulnerable at best, degraded at worst.

If it's got to be a hospital, I agree with those who have said closer is best, especially if you need to stay in the post-natal ward it's a real faff to have a significant journey through London traffic to contend with. I also think psychologically, you are more comfortable staying at home till preg is well established (which the midwifes want you to/ insist that you do) if you know it's just a few minutes to get to hospital. I think if I had been with Tommy's I would have gone earlier, and who knows what course the labour would have taken that had been the case.

[Keef]

That is a good point about getting home, after a week on the ward, getting home from Tommy's was a total nightmare! They recommended a cab firm saying they'd provide car seat, which turned out to be ribbish. So don't make the mistake of relying on that, like we did!

[iaineasy]

we are having ours at home hopefully but good luck! The NCT woman told us if you book at home then you can always goto hospital if you need to but not the other way around. so hope fully home it is but you never know!

[The Nappy Lady]

Good luck Ian - home birth is just the best if it does work out - you can't beat tea and toast in bed an hour or so after giving birth, with baby tucked up between you.....must stop or I'll be broody again!

Really excited for you as not long to go now.....

Molly

[The Nappy Lady]

Good luck Ian - home birth is just the best if it does work out - you can't beat tea and toast in bed an hour or so after giving birth, with baby tucked up between you.....must stop or I'll be broody again!

Yes - you can always change your mind and go into hospital if you feel the need, but you can't change your mind the other way around, so I reckon it is well worth at least booking for the home birth for that reason alone.

Really excited for you as not long to go now.....

Molly

[Smiler]

Glad that they are letting partners stay at Kings now, mine begged to stay with me and promised to be silent but was kicked out. The worst bit for me was being alone the night after the birth and the one after that as the staff didn't help and were unfriendly - though in retrospect it would've helped if I had been a bit more assertive in asking for help.

Personally I think that the ratio of midwives to births is key, which is why some of the local midwifery services are great, people get a dedicated midwife. These services are not available everywhere.