ADVICE WANTED- Who's responsible for my communal door

[*Tee*]

Hi all, i am after some advice!!

I live in a conversion flat, which is a lovely house converted into 2 flats, (i live in the ground floor flat) Both my neighbor and i share the main front door and communal hallway before entering and leaving our own front doors (usual set up.)

Both my neighbor and i rent our flats from southwark council.

Late friday evening i returned from work to find my communal front door totally smashed in! Right away i panicked and got that sick-ky feeling that my flat had been burgled, as i edged my way in expecting to find total devastation and my own front door obliterated, i discovered that my flat was fine and no one had been in it. straight away i banged on my neighbors flat door to find out what had gone down, going by the state of the front door, it wasn't that pretty.

He emerged shortly afterwards and said that it was the police that had smashed in the door. I said why?, he replied his sister had came round and was worried about him, and because she had not seen him in a while and he didn't answer the door, (his bell isn't working and his phone line is suspended)she became worried, thought something was wrong with him and decided to call the police????

My door is a total mess, they had used one of those heavy duty "things" commonly used to break down the door of criminals to gain entry. ?900.00 worth of solid new door is now unusable, skirting boards ruined, plaster ruined, locks ruined, door furniture ruined,and door framed hanging off by a nail. The plaster in my own living room has a huge crack running the length of the wall too as a result.

In a huff i grabbed the phone and rang the local police station who told me that they had to attend as the relative of my neighbor had become concerned- fair enough, BUT TO SMASH THE DOOR IN???

The police couldn't even be bothered to clean up, leave a polite note with a telephone number on asking me to contact them or nothing, except they just left me to find my front door smashed in, honestly i thought i was going to have a mini heart attack, as my last conversion flat was broken into by thieves too!

Once more i should add that as freelance, i usually work from home and most times when my neighbors relatives have come round and couldn't get him up because he is always sleeping, would always ring my bell, so that they could be let in. So my first feeling was the one occasion that i wasn't in, when she came round, she became panicked as she couldn't get in, she then decides to call the police. I think its a waste of resources as, my neighbor is one of those people who NEVER answers the door to anyone, not even his own relatives including her, AND SHE KNOWS THAT ALSO. He usually leaves her outside for 10 minutes or so, or until i get fed up of her communal door knocking. So why was this situation so different to the rest that she had to call the police. After all he never answers anyway. I later found out from the call log that she told the police that she had not seen her brother in 4 weeks??? well thats because she had not been round in 4 weeks. Its not as if she had been round every week for 4 weeks and could not get an answer, that of course would raise alarm bells. But to me, i think she may have slightly fabricated her story to get a faster reaction out of the police.

My question is my door is so badly damaged, and door frame too that it needs replacing. I called the council straight away who were more helpful than the police, someone is coming to "repair" the door and frame on monday, but it really needs replacing. Because this is our "security" door meaning it has beefier locks, it will never be the same strength since it has been smashed in already. The council can only "make good" the door. The police dont want to know, as they say they have a duty to respond to the public, and my neighbours sister, well she hasnt been seen since friday, and we wont be seeing her for another 4 weeks.My neighbor doesnt care, as he has slight mental health issues, and wouldnt even notice if we had a door at all.

I've spent my time and money restoring our lovely door, and hallway. In every conversion there is always one neighbor that takes care of the up keep of the entrance and i'm it!

Should i get the door replaced and forward the bill onto the council, police complaints dept, or even the sister. What does everyone think! either way, the door will need to be replaced not repaired.

any helpful advice welcome!!

*Tee*

[womanofdulwich]

maybe the fact that the door bell was not working and was southwarks responsibility is a better tact? ie go to them .

If you can afford to I would get the police around to look at your flat and see how you could improve the safety of your own flat front door. I don't think you will get anywhere with the police or your neighbour. Sorry.:(

[Bluerevolution]

Cal the council emergency repairs-it's there responsibility-do not under any circumstances get it fixed as the council will not reimburse- the council will probably bill the Bill -see what I did there !- but it is not your responsibilty

[computedshorty]

?

[Bluerevolution]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> maybe the fact that the door bell was not working

> and was southwarks responsibility is a better

> tact? ie go to them .

> If you can afford to I would get the police around

> to look at your flat and see how you could improve

> the safety of your own flat front door. I don't

> think you will get anywhere with the police or

> your neighbour. Sorry.:(

Door bell not woking is probably a dead battery, that is the occupiers responsibilty.

[Ladymuck]

Hi Tee,

Without having seen the wording in your tenancy agreement...I can only give general advice and cannot comment on your specific case. So, the first thing you need to do is to have a look at your tenancy agreement with Southwark Council. Having said that, repairs for the structure and exterior of the property will usually be Southwark's responsibility. However, your case has the added complication that your neighbour had an indirect part to play in the damage to your door. Therefore I would have thought that Southwark would be able to re-claim any costs incurred in putting the door right from that neighbour. To add to the complications, because the repair involves a breach to your security, Southwark may be under a separate duty to deal with the repair to your door within a certain amount of time, failing which you could order the works and then reclaim the money from them under the "right to repair" scheme. However, there are monetary and time limits which apply under this scheme.

Therefore, my advice would be to:

see what your tenancy agreement says

ask Southwark Council to repair the door as, at present, it is insecure

if they refuse...go and see an advisor at your local CAB...assuming you live in ED, your nearest one would be in Sydenham. They are extremely helpful (I used to work there myself).

Good Luck.

[*Tee*]

Unfortunately, the door bell is my neighbors responsibility, not that he at all cares.I wonder how many "smash downs" i'm gonna get as a result :(

The council said that as its the communal door, its not classed as an emergency, but as long as my own front door is in working order, then their not obliged to come out right away!

I do hope they bring the door back to its original state, by the sounds of the housing repairs operator, it sounded like a hammer and nails were all that was going to be provided on the day, believe me it needs a whole lot more.

[*Tee*]

Thanks for all your helpful advice guys! This has never happened to me before, so i really don't know quite how to handle this.

[Bluerevolution]

They have an obligation to "make safe and secure", it will take time for them to carry out a full repair

[Ladymuck]

*Tee* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Unfortunately, the door bell is my neighbors

> responsibility, not that he at all cares.I wonder

> how many "smash downs" i'm gonna get as a result

> :(

>

> The council said that as its the communal door,

> its not classed as an emergency, but as long as my

> own front door is in working order, then their not

> obliged to come out right away!

> I do hope they bring the door back to its original

> state, by the sounds of the housing repairs

> operator, it sounded like a hammer and nails were

> all that was going to be provided on the day,

> believe me it needs a whole lot more.

I would still go to a CAB and ask for their opinion...even though your own flat door is sound, your security is compromised whilst the communal front door remains in a state of disrepair. A CAB is free bye the way.

[SteveT]

If you are not a handy man I would call a joiner to strengthen the locks on your own personal door, if you are get to it immediately and worry about the paper works later.

[EDKiwi]

I wonder if an offical complaint to the police would go anywhere, surely the sisters actions could be taken as misleading the police, making a false statement or something similar. She must have made it sound pretty serious, the police usally don't break down doors just because someone doesn't answer the door.

[Ladymuck]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you are not a handy man I would call a joiner

> to strengthen the locks on your own personal door,

> if you are get to it immediately and worry about

> the paper works later.

That is a really good point...and, if you haven't already done so, ensure you have at least one "Chubb"-type lock as well as the usual less secure "Yale"-type lock. A "London Bar" and hinge bolts are also a good idea (note though: you would generally be liable for the cost of these).

[Bluerevolution]

The OP states the guy doesn't open his door as a rule so there is probably more than meets the eye-is he a registered alcoholic or drug addict? If he is, then Yes, there is a strong possibiltity of police action being taken as there maybe an endangerment to life

[EDKiwi]

Bluerevolution Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The OP states the guy doesn't open his door as a

> rule so there is probably more than meets the

> eye-is he a registered alcoholic or drug addict?

> If he is, then Yes, there is a strong possibiltity

> of police action being taken as there maybe an

> endangerment to life

Hmmm, true, could be something like that too.

[SteveT]

Wasting police time?

They would surely not have wrecked the front door if they had the full story as *Tee* explained it.

[Bluerevolution]

*TEE* can't know the full background-police intervention would take a minimum of 72 hours and ONLY in extreme circumstances, as I said earlier the guy must be registered somewhere either medically or with social services-I know I stated Alcohol or drigs but he may have mental issues or have a history of attempted suicide due to depression-glad he's ok though

[*Tee*]

My neighbor has slight mental health issues. His not aggressive in any way, just withdrawn and usually speaks to no one! I still believe the sister did go over the top when she called the police, and maybe made matters sound much worse than they were.By him having these issues maybe the reason they broke the door down.

The sister can not be that smart because if she was indeed concerned about her brother, why did it take 4 weeks for her to visit him? why has she never arranged for some kind of support in his own home like a care in the community scheme, why didnt she arrange for his bell to get fixed? and further more why didnt she get a copy of his keys to let herself in. The weird thing is, why hasnt she already got keys, considering everytime she comes round,she goes through this merry go round of trying to get in.I am surprised the police didnt establish these facts first, BEFORE they decided to smash my door in.

The whole thing seems rather weird to me, maybe they just enjoy smashing peoples doors in.

These are all questions that i want to ask her also when she visits the next time, although she may be feeling slightly embarrassed by the lengths she has gone through to get in, so i got a feeling i wont be seeing her for some time.

The more i think about it, makes me want to put in a complaint to the police.

As back up, i have taken photos and will be going to see an housing officer first thing monday morning, as well as the CAB. The council usually takes 1000 years to give the go ahead on any work to be done. So in the meantime i have a carpenter friend who has offered to come around and look at my flat door, as from outside the door looks wrecked and weak, and i fear that would be thieves would try and break in, as they can see that the door is unsecure.I have 2 more sleepless nights until Monday morning, hopefully by then i can see some kind of result.

[Ladymuck]

*Tee* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My neighbor has slight mental health issues. His

> not aggressive in any way, just withdrawn and

> usually speaks to no one! I still believe the

> sister did go over the top when she called the

> police, and maybe made matters sound much worse

> than they were.By him having these issues maybe

> the reason they broke the door down.

> The sister can not be that smart because if she

> was indeed concerned about her brother, why did it

> take 4 weeks for her to visit him? why has she

> never arranged for some kind of support in his own

> home like a care in the community scheme, why

> didnt she arrange for his bell to get fixed? and

> further more why didnt she get a copy of his keys

> to let herself in. The weird thing is, why hasnt

> she already got keys, considering everytime she

> comes round,she goes through this merry go round

> of trying to get in.I am surprised the police

> didnt establish these facts first, BEFORE they

> decided to smash my door in.

>

> The whole thing seems rather weird to me, maybe

> they just enjoy smashing peoples doors in.

>

> These are all questions that i want to ask her

> also when she visits the next time, although she

> may be feeling slightly embarrassed by the lengths

> she has gone through to get in, so i got a feeling

> i wont be seeing her for some time.

>

> The more i think about it, makes me want to put in

> a complaint to the police.

>

> As back up, i have taken photos and will be going

> to see an housing officer first thing monday

> morning, as well as the CAB. The council usually

> takes 1000 years to give the go ahead on any work

> to be done. So in the meantime i have a carpenter

> friend who has offered to come around and look at

> my flat door, as from outside the door looks

> wrecked and weak, and i fear that would be thieves

> would try and break in, as they can see that the

> door is unsecure.I have 2 more sleepless nights

> until Monday morning, hopefully by then i can see

> some kind of result.

Tee, you may well have a complaint against the Police...all the more reason to seek legal advice!

[Townleygreen]

My advice would be, go round to the police station and give them hell.

Alternatively, smash down their front door.

See how they like it.

Sc*mbags.

[Bluerevolution]

The only problem that TEE has with the police is that THEY should have notified the council and sorted some sort of repair-however I think the Met may have better things to do- and what if this guy was dead? waste of resources or less smelly flat for TEE ?

[*Tee*]

Your right,its the way the police handled the whole thing. Why was it up to ME to arrange repair of the door, surely they should have notified the council of the need for someone to secure the door. My own flats security was compromised for the whole day while i was out and i didnt even know about it. Walking in to find the mess was a nightmare beyond nightmares, because no one was there to explain to me what took place.

[ianr]

The council presumably have front door keys?

[*Tee*]

No they won't have keys.