New owners want to carry out a side extension and return - has this happened to you?

[Senor Chevalier]

Wrestling this back to topic for a moment, living in London in terraced houses you do have to come to terms with the fact that neighbours will get building work done from time to time despite it being inconvenient. It is a fact of life and a pain in the @*** but a 'live and let live' attitude is far better than winding yourself up about something that at best you can frustrate but ultimately you cannot stop or control. Clearly there are rules which limit what people can do but provided they stick within them then it is better to accept the situation earlier and let them get on with it as after the work is finished they will be your neighbours. By chipping away, nit-picking and insisting on additional surveyors etc you can add to the unnecessary costs incurred by your new neighbours and deplete any goodwill before you've even become acquainted. Having the wall built on the boundary line rather than their side would give you option value if your circumstances change and you do wish to get your own extension done and / or future owners if and when you come to sell.

The way planning rules work you can't stop development but you can nit-pick over things that you don't really care about thus adding to cost and worsening the scheme for your neighbours but making no particular difference to you which is pointless and just leads to bad will.

[fazer71]

Excellent appraisal.

Only

Problem

These NIMBY lunatics don't care about bad will.

They'd rather shoot themselves plus everyone else in the foot and add to the cost lengthen the time and reduce the quality housing for all concerned to the detriment of all society.

The system is not fit for the purpose it was created for, its purpose now appears to be job creation at the expense to all who don't work the system.

The OP is typical of the confusion and resentment created by our dysfunctional planning system.

[Jeremy]

TBH I'm pretty much with Senor Chevalier. The increased popularity for family urban living means that affluent professionals will want to extend their homes as much as possible - and it's their legal right to do so. There's not much you can do to stop the trend. Making a fuss about it won't stop your neighbours doing the work, it will only make your life less pleasant.

Like the planes... and the traffic.. it's part of urban living.

[first mate]

Aside from maxing out on one's legal rights, affluent young professionals also have a choice in terms of the degree to which they extend their homes- that choice may involve considering the impact on their neighbour and perhaps even modifying and scaling back their plans. Choosing to exercise that consideration is also an indication that good will works both ways.

[fazer71]

first mate that is an interesting way to look at things ..

"Let me see I'll do what my neighbours would like not what I'm entitled to do."

WOW

Edit to add

Maybe

I should ask my neighbours what colour they'd like me to chose for my next car, I could take them along to the car showroom when I'm selecting wheel style and body colour and interior colours style 4x4 estate or sports car and the particular model and have them decide with me?

Maybe that's taking things a little too far maybe not far enough freedom isn't what you think it is IS it!

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

There is a balance to be struck between your legal rights and common sense in maintaining good relations with your neighbours. As much as I strongly disagree with Fazer's chosen method of conducting himself, I have some sympathy with his POV.

I have neighbours that are extremely quick to complain about anything that bothers them 9and make a point of telling me all the time how they used to be very good friends with the former owners), but seem to be completely unaware of the impact they make on me. I've come to think there is very little point in putting effort into appeasing complainers when the consideration isn't a two way street.

Yes, affluent young professionals can make choices in developing their properties that don't impact their neighbours as much. Equally, neighbours can consider how their attitude might be attempting to hinder someone's legal right to develop their own property.

[pop9770]

What

NO there is no balance to be struck.

If you've got planning then you just do what you're allowed to do. Why on earth would you do anything different to suit your current neighbours who could move the day after you've finished.

Affluent young professionals it could be some old couple who've won the lottery :)

[*Bob*]

People are strange. They steam in with planning applications for stuff which clearly might rub immediate neighbours up the wrong way - and the first that those neighbours often hear about it is when they see it stuck to a lamp-post.

Yes, ok if you want to go nuclear on it, so what - it?s your place - what you do is between you, planning and the lamp post and they can lump it. Personally I have found that encouraging neighbourly cohesion and friendliness is not best facilitated via the medium of lamp-posts.

Generally, my own opinion (as with others above) is that here in London you should expect every bit of vacant land, existing building, road, railway and, yes, airport - to only ever get built on, busier and expanded, subject to planning.

This does not mean, however, that I?ve lost all capacity to empathise with others who don?t feel the same.

[pop9770]

No one steams in on planning they apply then the council send out letters to neighbours and then the council place a sign on a lamp post to let everyone else know.

it takes 8 weeks to get a planning decision so everyone concerned gets a chance to have their say.

I'm sorry *Bob* what on earth are you talking about?

[Jeremy]

I dunno, Bob has a point (albeit one which *should* be obvious)... it's really stupid not to talk your plans over with your neighbours first. It may be possible to resolve any concerns amicably face-to-face, rather than them having to object to your plans via the council, etc.

[*Bob*]

The first our neighbours heard of any building we were planning doing (and vice versa) was not from the council. Don't people actually speak to their neighbours first any more? Seems like a bit of common courtesy to me. Maybe I'm old fashioned in that respect.

Incidentally, the council failed to send notification letters to one side. It's over such little mix-ups that people end-up living next door to people who they've fallen out with - for the next ten years.

[*Bob*]

'zactly Jeremy.

[pop9770]

*Bob* Jeremy have you had actual experience of doing any of this?

I have, I totally disagree there is no need to consult your neighbours it could backfire much better to just deal with the planners let your architect deal with the planning, avoid all communication with neighbours point them towards the council.

If not you will do is inflame the situation.

That's what happened to us now I would never discussing anything with any neighbours what business is it of theirs?

If I had my time again and they ask what I'm doing I'd say ask the council planning department and leave me alone and when it comes to the actual building work let them deal with the builders and the inspectors etc ..

Neighbours are nothing but trouble.

I would now never advise opening up to the stranger?s next door complete madness.

Learned our lessons the hard way never again

[*Bob*]

'the stranger next door'

Good god.

Maybe you reap what you sow on that one.

[pop9770]

Yes *Bob* strange because they do strange things

That's what I though you have no experience

[*Bob*]

No, we've done lots of building work.

And we speak to our neighbours.

We are clearly mad.

[Anton LaVey]

Good for you our neighbours drove us crazy cost us a small fortune they pretending to be happy then objected to everything they called health and safety every day our builder said he'd never experienced anything like it.

And after all that, they moved to Yorkshire if only we'd waited six months.

A lottery.

[pop9770]

*Bob*

You are lucky or they fear you

[*Bob*]

This thread had taken a dark turn. I find it depressing that some peoples default position is not to communicate with people they live next door to, even if as a result of a bad experience in the past.

When we moved here, the neighbours introduced themselves, they made us feel welcome. The gave us strange pieces of information like 'their names'.

I've lived next door to (previously under / over when in flats) all sorts of people: some difficult, some eccentric. Some rich, some poor, whatever. I'd live to think I've treated them all with a bit of basic common humanity rather than 'sod you, stranger', right from the off.

[Penguin68]

A number of the 'big builds' locally in my part of ED have been speculative, by developers doing up the property (often massively enlarging it) then selling on. 'Getting to know the neighbours' or indeed giving a stuff for them hasn't been an issue, when the new/ current owner never has any intent to live there once the work is done. Hope this isn't so in your case. But it rather drives a coach and horses through 'the usual courtesies' if it is.

[Senor Chevalier]

We bent over backwards to consult with neighbours for our planning and build. We got a mixed response. Some friendly and supportive (we were removing an eyesore). Some needlessly and pointlessly forced us to incur cost by insisting on extra party wall surveyors when we had offered to let them choose the surveyor to act for both parties - this meant that the money we were going to spend tidying up a shared wall / butting bottles of wine etc which would have benefitted them did not get spent. One neighbour was friendly and made 'useful' planning suggestions which we accommodated and then objected to these specific elements in their response to the planners - I kid you not. She moved out of the are a month after we completed and her parting words were that she was surprised to say that it turns out she rather likes what we've done.

Others did the tactical planning point scoring thing - study the planning rules and complain about things they don't give a stuff about like the neighbours opposite complaining about a rear facade and window, concern that one bedroom is 0.5m2 below the Southwark guideline etc - chip away at our plans and cause death by 1000 cuts.

One neighbour only provided partial access for our PW surveyor to assess and document the pre-existing condition of their property and then asserted that the cracks that had 'appeared' in all the rooms we had not been allowed to survey had been caused by us - I think he thought we were spending a bit of cash and he could get a full refurb of his property out of us.

Overall it is a mixed bag. I would still consult neighbours, try to stay on good terms and consider requests but frankly trust myself to decide what's reasonable and not compromise on things that are important to me. If on the receiving end then try to put yourself in the shoes of the person trudging through the awful planning system and then often getting ripped off by builders, utility companies etc...

[Cats_pyjamas]

You're so lucky to even live in a house, and especially so in East Dulwich. Don't forget that.

[Senor Chevalier]

Indeed. The whole thing was a very difficult experience but we were sufficiently fortunate to be in the position to get ourselves into the predicament in the first place and eventually did emerge from the other side.

[Leviathan]

Cats_pyjamas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You're so lucky to even live in a house, and

> especially so in East Dulwich. Don't forget that.

Just think about all those poor people considering a cardboard box extension

1st world problems

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

I think this is what they call "virtue signalling"...