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messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Seabag November 28, 02:21PM

Spartacus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone sent me a message stating
> "A vote for Labour is a vote for a coalition with
> the SNP and Nicola being the puppet Mistress"
>
> That would worry me more than anyone else being in
> power as her demands would destroy this country


You voted leave though, yes?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk November 28, 02:51PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds simple Alan. However we’ve seen the
> difficulties in disentangling ourselves from 40
> years of EU membership. How much more difficult to
> unravel 400 years of Union?
>
> What belongs to the Crown? Defence and coastal
> waters? An economic border between England and
> Scotland if we’re not in the EU? Tariffs for
> cross-border trade?
>
> I don’t think this has been thought through


I agree the leavers didn’t think this thru, the end of the Union is a very likely consequence of Brexit

And that’ll create another hell of a mess

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by keano77 November 28, 03:01PM

Possibly pk but don’t forget the krankies brought their independence referendum two years before the Brexit ref, not as a result of it

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge November 28, 03:06PM

...and they were asked to vote no to independence in order to stay in the EU

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk November 28, 03:12PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Possibly pk but don’t forget the krankies brought
> their independence referendum two years before the
> Brexit ref, not as a result of it

And before Brexit they voted to stay in the Union

Post Brexit probably not

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Spartacus November 28, 03:43PM

The issue I see with Nicole is not them voting for independence, personally I don't give a Jot if they do, it's the other things she will demand as part of a coalition including giving up our nuclear defense.

Don't get me wrong I'm all in for global unilateral disarming of nuclear devices but there is no way in hell that I can support just the UK giving them up as that would leave us defenseless to other countries that do have them. (The old mutually assured destruction syndrome)

That and other things is why I think a coalition with the SNP is a dangerous option for the country , not the threat of indyref

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk November 28, 03:57PM

Spartacus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The issue I see with Nicole is not them voting for
> independence, personally I don't give a Jot if
> they do

you're not a fan of this United Kingdom?

and you think breaking up will be easy?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge November 28, 04:00PM

Sturgeon is savvy enough to know that getting rid of Trident wouldn't pass a vote through parliament due to Labour rebels and Lib Dems etc. A different matter if they win independence though...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Asset November 28, 06:19PM

But Trident creates a lot of jobs in Scotland and I'm not sure how they would replace them so don't think it's really a viable option for her to remove.

I grew up in Scotland and a lot of my friends and family are still there, most of them are Yes voters but I don't understand how they can reconcile voting to leave the UK yet also want to stay in the EU. As far as I see it, all the arguments for staying in the EU can be extrapolated to staying in the UK and most of the Yes voters are voting with their hearts instead of their heads.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Seabag November 29, 01:02AM

Spartacus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone sent me a message stating
> "A vote for Labour is a vote for a coalition with
> the SNP and Nicola being the puppet Mistress"
>
> That would worry me more than anyone else being in
> power as her demands would destroy this country



Really, honestly, ‘somebody’ sent you that message?

It’s your way of saying “I don’t like that Sturgeon woman” , just be honest.

Puppet mistress? Who the f uses phrases like that these days?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by fishbiscuits November 29, 09:44AM

I think I prefer Sturgeon to Corbyn, by quite some margin.

At the time of the first Scottish referendum, I really wanted Scotland to stay. But now... if I was Scottish I'd almost certainly want out of this shit show.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge November 29, 10:07AM

I felt the same, never considered myself much of a unionist, but I did think we were 'better together'. Friends I have in Scotland, including English settled there, all now think the same.
I suspect the Tories aren't that bothered, we've seen how they were prepared to throw NI and their DUP friends under the Brexit bus, and it won't have gone unnoticed to Tory strategists that without the Scottish vote how difficult it will be in the future to ever kick the Tories out of power...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Seabag November 29, 12:30PM

fishbiscuits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I prefer Sturgeon to Corbyn, by quite some
> margin.
>
> At the time of the first Scottish referendum, I
> really wanted Scotland to stay. But now... if I
> was Scottish I'd almost certainly want out of this
> shit show.

I’m apt to agree, they’re by no way perfect. But anything that takes Johnson out and gives the country a chance to relook at the whole situation is best if the two evils.
I’m resigned to the next ten years being a struggle, but not ten years more of Tory organised chaos, to then be told by the very party that created the chaos that they’re the ones to sort it out.

I’m also pro the union, as we are stronger together. But if I was Scotland, I’d be looking the idea of choice straight on and in the eye.

The knock on of Brexit are far reaching, and the dumbed down message of ‘get Brexit done’ is another deception. It’s not going to be ‘done’ by any measure in the near future. It’s much like putting the parents in a care home. They might be out of sight, but they’re there ‘dying slowly’ until dead for an expensive and long time yet.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Alan Medic November 30, 08:00AM

Seabag Wrote:

>
> The knock on of Brexit are far reaching, and the
> dumbed down message of ‘get Brexit done’ is
> another deception. It’s not going to be ‘done’ by
> any measure in the near future. It’s much like
> putting the parents in a care home. They might be
> out of sight, but they’re there ‘dying slowly’
> until dead for an expensive and long time yet.

Like the analogy Seabag.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Alan Medic November 30, 08:08AM

On the subject of the thread, given my concerns of Labour's stance on Brexit, I wrote to our MP asking her what would she do in my position. I received an excellent response which included links to everything she voted on.

My concern with Labour's current stance of 'putting it to the people', is that they could decide that a supermajority is required in a 2nd referendum for us to remain in the EU. That's why a hung parliament is the best option for me given the SNP and the Lib Dems won't buy into that I'm sure.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge November 30, 09:39AM

We have a Prime Minister who won't tell the public how many children he's fathered, yet has castigated single mothers. Marina Hyde's latest column pulls no punches...

Boris Johnson’s big contribution to reducing plastic consumption is not wearing condoms. Or as Gavin Williamson put it this morning: “Boris Johnson has done more for the environment than any other politician.” Quite. We don’t need a joined-up strategy to prevent climate catastrophe with the largest and most successful trading bloc the world has ever seen, because Johnson’s going to spaff our way to the higher ground, while we serve as galley slaves on his privatised sex ark.

Maybe I’m being a shade unfair. So let me say that this election marks a change of behaviour for the prime minister, who has finally started withdrawing. Unfortunately, he’s pulling out of climate debates and BBC interviews, as opposed to single mothers. Still, baby steps. And he’s certainly missed a few of those.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Sue November 30, 11:13PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have a Prime Minister who won't tell the public
> how many children he's fathered, yet has
> castigated single mothers. Marina Hyde's latest
> column pulls no punches...
>
> Boris Johnson’s big contribution to reducing
> plastic consumption is not wearing condoms. Or as
> Gavin Williamson put it this morning: “Boris
> Johnson has done more for the environment than any
> other politician.” Quite. We don’t need a
> joined-up strategy to prevent climate catastrophe
> with the largest and most successful trading bloc
> the world has ever seen, because Johnson’s going
> to spaff our way to the higher ground, while we
> serve as galley slaves on his privatised sex ark.
>
> Maybe I’m being a shade unfair. So let me say that
> this election marks a change of behaviour for the
> prime minister, who has finally started
> withdrawing. Unfortunately, he’s pulling out of
> climate debates and BBC interviews, as opposed to
> single mothers. Still, baby steps. And he’s
> certainly missed a few of those.


Marina Hyde is brilliant.

The rest of the article carried on in the same vein smiling smiley

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by malumbu December 01, 07:01PM

I've tried not to watch too much TV debate, or jump on the knocking BoJo bandwagon in terms of his behaviours.

But Andrew Marr today was a bit of a shocker. No attempt to answer the question, it was like they were having parallel conversations. Maybe it is like a silent disco with two people dancing to separate tunes.

The lack of substance was frightening, just repeating that everything was Labour's fault, JC is a terrorist sympathiser and 120 days as PM holding no responsibility for the 10 years before. Ckakrabarty on the other hand, whether genuine or not, refused to politicise Friday's events. I'd refused to join in the common view that BoJo comes across as smirking but a smile was coming to his lips as if it was all a game.

Dare I say that JC for all his faults (poor leadership, general incompetence) does have much greater gravitas

CAn someone produce a video based on the Monty Python argument sketch - Cleese/BoJo Palin/Marr


messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Jules-and-Boo December 01, 08:03PM

too funny.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Bob Buzzard December 01, 08:26PM

I’ve got a postal ballot and it’s Lib Dem for me!

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by malumbu December 01, 11:43PM

I've suggested to the BBC remaking the Monty Python argument sketch; you can't e-mail the show directly and apparently there have been complaints of bias due to BJ ducking the issue. Well he did. That's not bias, that's fair journalism.

I've noted too misteaks in my earlier post so it's off to Rees-Mogg's plaice for some correcktion.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL December 02, 10:40AM

The secret barrister account on twitter created a long detailed explanation of IPP sentences and what happened in 2012/2013 and why sentences were changed.

It seems someone in Boris's team nicked it and sent it out under his name. I like the comment "This is weapons grade sh**housery."

[www.mirror.co.uk]

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by DNellie December 02, 11:33AM

Suggesting that People HAVE to vote is like saying that if a vegetarian is in a pub and wants to eat
they must choose a Meat option if there is No veggie option.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was december 02, 11:35am by DNellie.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge December 02, 12:08PM

The problem with analogies is that they are rarely relevant to the situation in question. How is going to a pub for a meal anything like voting to see who governs us for the next five years? However, if the vegetarian had to stay in the pub for 5 years, I'm guessing it wouldn't be long before they started drooling over the bacon sarnies...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL December 02, 01:02PM

DNellie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suggesting that People HAVE to vote is like saying
> that if a vegetarian is in a pub and wants to eat
> they must choose a Meat option if there is No
> veggie option.


I was going through my old papers and shredding last week and found a demand that I register to vote with Bromley council (back when I lived there) with the threat of a 1000 fine and a note I was on the list to be prosecuted.

Wasn't compulsory to vote but they really wanted my registration.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by fishbiscuits December 02, 03:59PM

Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub members up and down the country, desperately trying to convince themselves and others that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly delusional!!

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk December 02, 04:20PM

fishbiscuits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub
> members up and down the country, desperately
> trying to convince themselves and others that a
> vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly
> delusional!!

surely it's a vote for a vote on Brexit

which to me is the right answer - a referendum on the issue in isolation rather than with the surrounding chaos of the GE, as was the case first time around but with the benefit of more information and (hopefully) a binary outcome that can be delivered rather than delusional 'brexit means brexit' BS

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL December 02, 04:43PM

fishbiscuits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub
> members up and down the country, desperately
> trying to convince themselves and others that a
> vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly
> delusional!!

I think some of the voters switching back to Labour are looking for another hung parliament not a Corbyn majority.

The less likely Corbyn looks to win a majority the more likely this group are to vote for Labour

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Blah Blah December 02, 05:00PM

Indeed. The worst thing that can happen for remain supporters thinking of switching away from Labour to the Libdems, is that they gift Boris seats in Labour marginals and therefore a working majority that pretty much rules out any chance of a 2nd referendum. This is precisely why Farage decided not to stand candidates in Tory held seats, marginal or otherwise.

Personally, I think Jo Swinson has been naive. She was the one person blocking a government of unity following a NC vote, by refusing to allow the leader of the opposition lead that coalition. That was the one sure fire chance to seize control of the Brexit process and get no deal off the table. A GE was always a huge risk, but you know these politicians always seem to think they are more popular than they really are. If Boris wins that majority on the 12th, she will be blamed for not having enabled that option to bring down the government. If Parliament is hung, she is going to have to agree to the very Corbyn led coalition she was so stubbornly opposed to before the election.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Sephiroth December 02, 05:18PM

"Meanwhile.. Labour voters and Corbyn fanclub members up and down the country, desperately trying to convince themselves and others that a vote for Labour is a vote against Brexit. Utterly delusional!!"

It's a bit of a rock and a hard place. the only route to potentially allowing the country to choose not to proceed with Brexit is via Labour policy. There is no other route

But as we can see, Labour themselves don't believe in it, won't campaign for it and so would we really get anywhere? There are still not enough leaders spelling out clearly the problems with leaving - too many people still believe it's a benefit and not a shitshow. I know many people won't change their mind (eg The Cat) but the whole thing is so finely balanced it doesn't need many people to have changed their minds

But even tho Labour is the route to that possible reversal, you have to get them elected (a red flag for many) AND trust them to deliver (I don't)

But what options do we have



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was december 02, 05:22pm by Sephiroth.

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