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messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Angelina July 01, 10:50AM

You can't put cooked food waste in with garden waste as it isn't compostable.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by DulwichFox July 01, 11:02AM

Angelina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't put cooked food waste in with garden
> waste as it isn't compostable.

Having spoken to my regular Bin man on Tuesday Garden Waste and Food waste are collected at the same time
and will be in the same Dustcart.

Not sure what to do with 'Cooked' food waste ??

Leave it out for the Foxes. It won't be out there long.

DulwichFox

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Siduhe July 01, 11:08AM

The ability to order the paper garden waste sacks (for people like me who have an occasional need for garden waste collection but not enough to need a whole bin) is now up online. 20 sacks for £15 and there is also a link to book their collection. Obviously haven't tried the collection part yet but have a pile of garden waste that has been piling up so will let you know how I get on.

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by AbDabs July 01, 01:42PM

Angelina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't put cooked food waste in with garden
> waste as it isn't compostable.

Do you mean meat/fish/cheese? You can certainly compost all cooked vegetables/fruit. As for meat/fish/cheese, it takes a lot longer and not recommended in low temperature home composting because of the various nasty bacteria that aren't killed off. If you use hot composting (e.g. Hotbin) then it's fine.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by James Barber July 01, 02:00PM

Hi Marmora,
You can always escalate and make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman - [www.lgo.org.uk]


Ordered our brown wheelie bin many weeks ago and still nothing - but I have sticker!
If true and relatively few taking up the new Garden Tax then many bins will be removed and presumably destroyed or sold on to possibly other councils. Government review is likely to say garden waste should be collected for free. So in roughly 2-4 years time we'll all be ordering new free brown wheelie bins from Southwark Council to replace the ones surrendered and disposed of. This will cost a large fortune. The council will complain about the government - rather than admitting how short sighted they've been.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Siduhe July 01, 02:27PM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The ability to order the paper garden waste sacks
> (for people like me who have an occasional need
> for garden waste collection but not enough to need
> a whole bin) is now up online. 20 sacks for £15
> and there is also a link to book their collection.
> Obviously haven't tried the collection part yet
> but have a pile of garden waste that has been
> piling up so will let you know how I get on.
>
> [www.southwark.gov.uk]
> rden-waste-collection-subscriptions?chapter=2

I spoke too soon - the page to order garden waste bags has now been changed to "beta" and doesn't complete when you try and select your address for the bags to be sent to, but it looks like it is coming at some unspecified future time.

The idea that you implement this sort of service by putting a fully functioning webpage up and then changing it to "beta" and making it non-functional a few hours later is indicative of Southwark's totally half-a**ed approach to this whole system IMO.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by sandyman July 01, 09:52PM

Sorry, still confused by this system.

We haven't subscribed yet so don't have a sticker, nor do we have a small food caddy despite requesting one in April so last week we had to put our food (no garden waste) in big brown bin.

It wasn't taken last Tuesday so we contacted Southwark via their "missed collections" page last Wednesday and were told it would be dealt with in two days.

Still haven't heard back, food now rotting in the heat still in big brown bin. What are the chances of it being taken on the next round?

Are we just unlucky or are others experiencing similar issues?

And as a postscript - if they don't take the food in big brown bins, what will they do with it when they come to remove our bin as we haven't subscribed?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 02, 12:00am by sandyman.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by singalto July 02, 09:38AM

I notice that all brown bins are still being emptied and am wondering why I have paid £25!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by DulwichFox July 02, 10:31AM

singalto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I notice that all brown bins are still being
> emptied and am wondering why I have paid £25!


Any Large Brown bin without a Sticker will very soon be removed.

I spoke with the Bin man today.
I had Garden Waste in my Large Brown Bin (with Sticker) and Food waste in my New Garden Caddie.

I said to the guy. "I haven't put the food bags in the Big bin because I was told not to"

He said " that's Ok I'm going to. It's all going to the same place"

He put the Food waste bags in the Big Bin with the Garden waste and took it out to the Dust cart.

It's all about Southwark Council exploiting its residents and making them pay for the Councils Incomitance.

DulwichFox

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by singalto July 02, 10:57AM

DulwichFox, are you saying that the new big food caddie that is cluttering up the place has actually no purpose? What a spectacular waste of council money!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by sally buying July 02, 12:10PM

I have been told that so far only 8,000 people in Southwark have signed up for the brown bin.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Callie July 04, 10:39AM

Does anyone have a picture of the garden waste bags? £15 for 20 seems very expensive to me especially as they were previously free and does that mean we still have to pay the 25 on top for having them collected?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Siduhe July 04, 10:55AM

Callie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone have a picture of the garden waste
> bags? £15 for 20 seems very expensive to me
> especially as they were previously free and does
> that mean we still have to pay the 25 on top for
> having them collected?

I ordered some recently, so will post a picture when they arrive. The £15 includes the cost of collecting them, so nothing more to pay - you still need to book a collection separately and they will only collect from the household that ordered the bags.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Callie July 04, 12:09PM

Thanks that would be great. I’m still putting my garden waste in the brown bin till they stop collecting it.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?attachment
Posted by Siduhe July 04, 10:20PM

Callie, photos of the folded bag package attached - basically they are exactly the same bags you used to be able to pick up for free at the libraries. Let me know if you want to see one unfolded.

To be fair - the delivery of the bags was super efficient - next day delivery after ordering. However - the package of bags won’t fit through a standard letterbox and it appears they want you to sign for the delivery. Luckily there was someone at home today but there normally wouldn’t be - so not quite sure how that is going to work for those households where everyone is at work during the day.

https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?5,file=331263
https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?5,file=331264



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 04, 10:28pm by Siduhe.

Attachments: 6950C4D0-8FA9-470D-A8CB-2C26744CF258.jpeg (121.8KB)   BB5A4FFA-9B3D-4F7B-97A8-543A565271D3.jpeg (72.9KB)  
messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Ruffler July 06, 10:33AM

We finally got our separate brown caddy style bin which I’ve been using for food waste but this wasn’t emptied yesterday.

They did empty the tiny amount of garden waste that was in the big brown bin but left a week’s worth of stinking food waste in the hot sun for another week!

^ ^ UPDATE - I reported the non collection and they did come back on Monday to empty the food waste!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 08, 06:28pm by Ruffler.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 July 06, 04:43PM

Even if you report non collection, they won't collect it until the next time that they Normally come

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 July 06, 05:08PM

Even if you report non collection, they won't collect it until the next time that they Normally come

In the 30+ years I have lived here in ED (same house) specific collections have only been missed on a couple of occasions, and have been remedied in 24-48 hours (next day or the day after). Maybe I've been lucky.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 July 08, 11:27PM

you have been lucky, now and again they miss my bin and they collect it the next time as there is no point in sending the lorry out for one bin.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 July 08, 11:29PM

council workers came in a van today and took everyones brown bin who lived across the road from me. it was around 25 houses and not one pperson paid for the new service.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by herne hilly July 09, 08:29AM

Thanks for the update. might try and fill mine one last time winking smiley

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by keano77 July 09, 01:20PM

The bin men emptied the brown bins today. Mine had garden waste and the bin men emptied my food waste caddy as well as two of my neighbours’ caddies into my bin and then emptied it all into the cart.

1. Waste of time me separating food waste into the caddy

2. I’ve paid £25 for a sticker and the bin men are putting food waste of others who haven’t paid into my bin

3. Who will own any maggots that appear in my brown bin in hot weather if several people’s food waste has been put in my bin by the bin men?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Callie July 09, 03:15PM

stating the obvious, the system just isn't working, why have a separate food bin if it all gets thrown together with the garden waste \0/ Waste collections have gone downhill. I definitely won't be getting a food waste caddy & messing around with that. Today my blue bin was emptied but my blue recycling box wasn't? I will be reporting a missed collection but I won't hold my breath as that system isn't working properly either.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Callie July 09, 03:19PM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Callie, photos of the folded bag package attached
> - basically they are exactly the same bags you
> used to be able to pick up for free at the
> libraries. Let me know if you want to see one
> unfolded.
>
> To be fair - the delivery of the bags was super
> efficient - next day delivery after ordering.
> However - the package of bags won’t fit through a
> standard letterbox and it appears they want you to
> sign for the delivery. Luckily there was someone
> at home today but there normally wouldn’t be - so
> not quite sure how that is going to work for those
> households where everyone is at work during the
> day.
>
> [www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk]?
> 5,file=331263
> [www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk]?
> 5,file=331264

thank you for posting the photos smiling smiley Wasn't expecting it to be the same old paper bags. I haven't made up my mind what to do yet.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Metallic July 09, 05:54PM

What a waste of plastic. You order a larger food caddy and they deliver it with the small one inside even though we already have those. This week a couple of my neighbours couldn't find where the dustmen had chucked their food caddy once it was emptied. Who knows?!!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Marmora July 10, 09:28AM

It took more than one month to get a reply from the council and the only reason I got a reply is because I emailed our MP but here it is for you to view the reply... Feel free to email the council....




Thank you for your email which has been passed to me for a response. I am sorry that you haven’t had any responses to your previous emails. I have answered each of your questions using your numbering and trust that this will give you all the information you have been seeking.



1. Can you confirm that the rubbish collection (blue, green and brown) has been included in our council tax until your new proposal?
Yes – the service is funded primarily from council tax and government grants, and continues to be free for general waste and dry recyclable collections, along with other services such as hazardous and clinical waste collection from households. The law allows discretionary charges to be made for provision of some household waste services including garden waste. A decision has been taken to introduce a charge for garden waste collection from 2019/20 onwards – this approach is already in place in the many councils which provide a garden waste collection service.

2. Can you confirm that this is a way to increase further more the council tax as all the bins collections were included until now?
This is not a change to council tax. The collection of garden waste is a discretionary service for which the council can choose to make a charge. This has been the legal position since the Environment Act 1990. In 2019/20 the council took a decision to make a charge for the first time as part of the annual budget setting process.


3. If you feel that some resident do not use the brown bin service, why not reduce their council tax as the bin service is included in the council tax?
The Council has no power to reduce council tax for households not using particular services in this way. Council tax is a property tax based on the value banding of the property and levied according to nationally fixed rules – it is not a service charge made for the provision of services, and the council has very limited powers to make local changes.


4. Can you confirm that this is an extra tax on people who maintain their garden as an eco friendly space, contributing to allow birds, bees, insects and many endangered species in London to live?
The introduction of a charge for the collection of garden waste does not affect how any resident chooses to maintain their garden. The most environmentally sustainable way of managing garden waste is to compost it within the garden, and use the resulting compost in the garden. We have provided many thousands of home composting bins for this purpose already, and many residents already compost their own waste in preference to having it collected. Not only does this minimise transport impacts in collecting and managing waste, it recycles nutrients back into the soil; the compost heaps provide habitat for a range of insects and fungi; and home composting minimises the overall carbon impacts of managing the waste.


5. Can you confirm that by introducing this new charge, you are encouraging residents with a garden, to pave their front and back garden, therefore contributing to destroying the planet?
No – the council is not encouraging residents to pave their gardens.

6. You are telling people to separate food waste and garden waste in different bins:
6.1. Does it mean that there will be a different collection for food waste bins?
6.2. If it is the case, isn’t it an extra cost for the council for nothing as it ends up in the same place?
6.3. Veolia staff are telling residents that the food bins and brown bins will be collected by the same truck, so why ask people to have two bins?
We expect that a separate collection for food and garden waste will be required in the next few years, with food waste and garden being composted through different processes. This change begins the process of providing separate collections, and although we will initially co-collect both waste types in the same vehicle, this is not expected to continue in the longer term. Separate collection and different treatment routes for food and garden waste are already an aim of the London Environment Strategy, and the government centrally has recently consulted on national measures to implement this approach.


7. By introducing this extra tax you are also encouraging residents not to separate their garden waste to their green bin’s waste?
Garden waste is not collected in green residual waste bins. If residents present significant quantities of garden waste in their residual waste bins they may be treated as contaminated and not collected. Residents should either compost their garden waste themselves, bring it at no charge to the Househld Waste Recycling & Reuse Centre, or use one of the paid services for collection of garden waste that are provided by the council.


8. With this tax, you are also encouraging people to steal stickered brown bins?
Collection stickers include the address of the address serviced. This helps ensure that people get their own bins back, and if stolen, they can be recovered and returned to their rightful owner.

9. How are you going to deal with stickered brown bins stealing?
See Q6 above


10. What information will be printed on the stickers as residents do not want their address and name on their bin?
Names are not included, but addresses are – not least to prevent theft. Given that the bin will be located at the address to which it relates, printing the address on the sticker will clearly not breach any confidentiality.


11. How will you be renewing stickers of stolen bins?
Where a bin is stolen and reported by the resident, a duplicate sticker will be issued to the resident with a replacement bin – unless the missing bin can be identified elsewhere and returned.


12. Can you confirm how the council will dispose of the unused brown bins collected in an environmental friendly way and explain this way?
Many of the bins recovered from non subscribing households will be retained, and cleaned for re-issue. Those which are damaged or not required will be returned to the bin manufacturer. The bins are then shredded, and the plastic is granulated and cleaned for remanufacture into new bins.


13. The streets of Southwark are littered with bins which are left on pavements all week long, obstructing the way, smelling and being an eyesore, what is the council doing so that people move their bins from pavements and keep them in their property until the collection day?
Not all residents have suitable storage space within their property for storage of bins. The council takes a practical view with regards to bin storage and will normally take action to remove where the bins cause an obstruction or have other adverse impacts on the local area. If bins are withdrawn, residents would be obliged to present their household waste in bags, and this might result in vermin having access to the waste and increase mess on the pavements, so we would seek to take a balanced view that takes account of these factors. Where residents do have suitable space for storing bins and have left them on the pavement for an extended period, the council reserves the right to remove them entirely.

Whilst I fully appreciate that your preference would be that the council provide this service without making a charge, the decision to charge for collection of garden waste is not one that has been taken lightly. It has been necessary to introduce a charge to avoid the need for reductions in other areas of service, as the council must balance its expenditure and income across a range of important services.




With best regards



Caroline





Caroline Bruce

Strategic Director of Environment & Leisure

Southwark Council

160 Tooley Street | London SE1 2QH

Email: Caroline.Bruce@southwark.gov.uk

www.southwark.gov.uk

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by AbDabs July 10, 01:55PM

"We expect that a separate collection for food and garden waste will be required in the next few years"
Seriously? So the small (and smaller) brown bins are a complete waste of plastic for anyone who has a big brown bin and has paid for the garden waste service.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Marmora July 10, 02:02PM

Yes it is!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Siduhe July 10, 02:18PM

MM's post reminded me of a point that James Barber raised a few pages ago - what the exact legal basis is for Southwark and other councils charging for collecting garden waste. It took me a while but I have found the piece of legislation that allows them do so this, and it seems pretty clear:

It's in Schedule 1, section 4 of The Controlled Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2012
Quote:
The Controlled Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2012
Household waste for which collection and disposal charges may be made

4.(1) The second column of the table in this paragraph describes waste which is household waste (by virtue of section 75(5) of the Act) or waste which is to be treated as household waste (by virtue of paragraph 2 or 3).

(2) The third column indicates which household waste is prescribed for the purposes of section 45(3) of the Act (cases in respect of which a charge for collection may be made).

No.3, Description of household waste (Garden Waste), Collection charge (Yes), Disposal charge (No, subject to entries 11 to 17)

[www.legislation.gov.uk]

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