Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?

[jtm]

The website www.southwark.gov.uk/gardenwaste explains the new service and the charge ?25 for June 2019- end of March 2020. The price in the letter for the collection service is ?30 for a year. Not very consistent. Also only applies to homes with gardens.

[diable rouge]

?30 a year equates to ?2.50 per month.

June '18 to Mar '20 is 10 months, which on the monthly rate equates to ?25...

[gumshoe]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> From when does this charge start - anyone know ?

> (Apols if I?ve missed that info above)

Starts in June, you can register from May on Southwark?s website.

[DulwichFox]

Southwark will save money by not having to collect garden waste.

And make money by Fining people who get caught / reported by neighbours when they burn garden waste.

Its the way forward for everything these days. FINES.

[KidKruger]

?We believe it is fairer that only those using the service contribute towards the running of it.?

In which case why not reduce the Council tax cost for those not using the brown bin and maintain the cost for those who are using the brown bin, surely the existing council tax already covers the cost of brown bin usage does it not ?

[Oldtincan]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> ?We believe it is fairer that only those using the

> service contribute towards the running of it.?

>

> In which case why not reduce the Council tax cost

> for those not using the brown bin and maintain the

> cost for those who are using the brown bin, surely

> the existing council tax already covers the cost

> of brown bin usage does it not ?

Couldn?t agree more kidkruger... but I doubt it will happen.

Perhaps one cost effective solution will be to club together with neighbours and spread the cost. Just remember to cut your grass/prune your trees on different weeks!

[KidKruger]

Thanks Gumshoe.

I have until June to trim the shrubs and pave the lawn.

[cella]

Still not clear where we put our food waste bags?

[trinidad]

On my street, The brown bin is shared between two people, so would we pay half each, or would the council charge us full price for one bin? what happens if one neighbour pays the charge, and the other does not??? flats where i am have numbers, and a flats eg Flat 1 + Flat 1a, etc....

i assume the bin would have the addess/es on the brown bin, so two addresses for us then?

[singalto]

As the trucks will still have to go up and down roads to empty the brown bins people have paid for, how does this save money? Will the same truck empty the caddies? It makes no sense to me.

[73jem]

So if you have paid up for your large brown bin it will be emptied if the lid is closed. Fine so far.

And if you occasionally have extra garden stuff, you can use the purchased paper sacks? but cannot leave them with the brown bin to be taken away when the brown bin is emptied, but you have to arrange for a separate collection, even if only one sack? Is this correct?

Sounds silly, surely if the sacks are already paid for they should be taken away when the bins are emptied.

But perhaps I have misunderstood.

[sally buying]

singalto Wrote:

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> As the trucks will still have to go up and down

> roads to empty the brown bins people have paid

> for, how does this save money? Will the same truck

> empty the caddies? It makes no sense to me.

There could now be 5 trucks. one for blue, one for green, one for brown and one for the caddy and another if you have to arrange collection for the brown bags.

All Southwark can see is how much money they can gouge from residents. No policy is ever thought through.

What is the old saying if it works why change it.

[TheArtfulDogger]

Whilst everyone is up in arms over this stealth tax on a service that is currently free, I wonder how many of us will pay it to get rid of their once a month (on average) half filled bin of garden waste ?

As someone pointed out earlier, this will impact areas where there are gardens, so blocks of flats who don't generate garden waste won't be impacted, which kind of implies it is a tax on the southern half of the borough (where most gardens are located)

It would be interesting to see what Southwark would do if everyone turned around and said "take my brown bin away"

Three things come to mind

1. Southwark would lose out on this extra revenue stream they are expecting

2. Residents voices would be clearly heard by decision makers

3. There will be a cost to the council to supply the new caddies and recycle the old brown bins

However I suspect people will still want their garden waste removed, so the best result we can expect is that one in every hundred premises keep their bins, thus forcing Southwark to supply a collection service but for it not to be cost effective to them.

As a final question, what's going to happen at Christmas ? Will Christmas trees be collected if you haven't paid the stealth tax or will, like some other boroughs , there be abandoned Christmas trees rolling around the streets where they are just dumped thus costing the council more money to go out and pick them up?

Someone up the Southwark tree really hasn't thought this through all the way down to the grass roots

My two-pennies worth thinks there should be a movement to say no to keeping the brown bins and call Southwark's bluff

[nxjen]

Goodness gracious, all this anger and wasted energy over ?2.50 a month. And before someone remarks it?s difficult for those on a low income, I?m on a low income and I don?t see it as a problem.

As for how many trucks, I suspect there will be the same number of trucks as there are now and food waste, garden waste and brown bags will all go in the same truck. Whether collection is paid for or not does not impact how it?s collected or how it ends up, they?re separate issues.

[TheArtfulDogger]

Nxjen it's not about the amount, it's about the principle of charging for a currently provided free service that is generating all this upset

It's the thin end of the wedge of stealth taxes for services that are currently free, be it brown bin collection, parking in your street,park car park access or late night drinking (the newly proposed Southwark late night levy) as these things need to be nipped in the bud before other services are seen as things that can be charged for.

[Penguin68]

... it's not about the amount, it's about the principle of charging for a currently provided free service that is generating all this upset

Agreed, and once the principal of itemised charging is introduced, rather than charges on rateable value raised through the general community charge (which can be controlled) then further price rises can be engineered with very little chance to object - they fall outside the normal budget debates which surround setting the community charge. ?30 one year can become ?60 the next very easily. As can escalation of parking charges. It ceases to operate under principles of taxation. Indeed, they can become flat rate charges, without regard to ability to pay, rather like the hated and soon abandoned poll tax.

[nxjen]

Yes it is currently a free service but not a statutory service that has to be provided and we?ve been fortunate it has been free for so long as a large proportion of other councils have been charging for it for some time and at a much higher rate.

As has been said time and time again, funding from central government has been slashed over the last 10 years: other than introducing ?stealth? taxes do you have any suggestions how the council can raise revenue for much needed services throughout the borough, services that you and I possibly do not use but many people less fortunate are very dependent upon?

[diable rouge]

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

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> Nxjen it's not about the amount, it's about the

> principle of charging for a currently provided

> free service that is generating all this upset

I don't see it as a free service, as far as I'm aware it's paid for via our Council Tax, unless someone knows different?...

[Penguin68]

Like the NHS 'free at the point of use' I suppose. It's a shorthand.

[nxjen]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> TheArtfulDogger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Nxjen it's not about the amount, it's about the

> > principle of charging for a currently provided

> > free service that is generating all this upset

>

> I don't see it as a free service, as far as I'm

> aware it's paid for via our Council Tax, unless

> someone knows different?...

Currently it?s paid for with revenue raised from Council Tax but the council does not have a statutory duty to provide the service from revenue raised in this way hence they are able to introduce charges.

[Penguin68]

Just to make a point - but the bin lorries that collect kitchen waste will still be collecting weekly from each household, as before, and, as before, small amounts of waste will be consolidated by the bin men into large bins to be tipped into the trucks, with additionally a few household large brown bins with garden waste tipped in. In addition a number of large brown bins will be collected by Southwark (and done what with - presumably disposed of as plastic waste which can't be easily recycled?) and new kerb-side caddies bought and distributed. So we have one-off costs of collecting old bins and providing new ones - and I would guess very little actual time saving in organic waste collection.

In the first year of operation this will presumably run at a loss, and subsequent years will see rental income (you are now renting your large brown bin at ?30 a year) - but no operational cost savings (but of course an ongoing operational cost to charge and collect rentals, deal with queries and complaints etc.).

As a revenue generation scheme it looks poor, its NPV will I imagine not be that compelling compared with Southwark's overall budget. And it will lose (a certain amount of) votes. [Those who like to see 'the rich' penalised will still be voting labour, those who don't may chose not to, where they once did].

Overall and at the charge now quoted - but perhaps watch this space this will make a very small, if any, net contribution to council income (as a pack of a fag packet exercise).

[nxjen]

Come off it, this isn?t even a back of a fag packet exercise but more of a hunch influenced by wishful thinking!

[trinidad]

Hoiw will the ?25.00 work, when neighbours share a brown bin?

[tomskip]

I'm with you NXJen - such an inordinate amount of fuss over almost nothing.

Where my Mum lives (a city but not London) the council still doesn't even collect glass for recycling.

[trinidad]

tomskip, Ed and West Peckham are going to be hit by ?125.00 a year to park on their road, and also going to have to pay ?25.00 to have their garden waste emptied. It might be "inordinate amount of fuss over almost nothing" for you, but there are many questions which clearly need answering for many residents.

While residents have been told of the charge in the form of a letter, there has been little information with this charge which i am sure you can understand!!