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messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Asset March 25, 07:55PM

I have a garden, I fill my brown bin maybe 3 times a year. Rest of the time it has 2-3 food waste bags in it when it's emptied weekly.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by James Barber March 25, 08:59PM

Hi tomskip,
I'm sure for many you're right.
But it is a new additional form of regressive taxation. Many who have houses with gardens have low incomes. Also many hundreds of council properties with gardens in SE22 with people on benefits who will find £30 a struggle. Similar numbers of social rented Housing Association properties with gardens.

At least taking the money to run this service from Council Taxation is flexed based on the capital value of the property in 1990. So those living in large properties pay more. Their were savings found that the Labour administration chose not to make that could have funded this OR given an exemption for people on low incomes.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Rockets March 25, 11:01PM

Tomskip....
Corbynista agenda....

2.99% council tax rise
8.00% GLA rise
Extension of double yellow lines to create parking pressure across the area to help justify stealth taxes...
£125 a year for a CPZ parking permit sold on false and misleading info
£30 a year to have your brown bins emptied
Trying to sneak green space car park parking charges through without anyone noticing.....

....all under the umbrella of “central govt cuts”.

I get it that councils have lost funding (and I am not suggesting the Tories are any better) but at some point that narrative wears a bit thin as a catch-all excuse for their actions. We are seeing the first buds of the Marxist agenda now anyone other than the hard left has been forced out of the Labour Party, so if you own a car or have a garden expect your council to come after you and stealth tax you. They will say “but our charges are the lowest across the capital” but this is just the start.


As Stealers Wheel so aptly put it...Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right....

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by TheArtfulDogger March 26, 04:27PM

If I may add to what Tomskip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tomskip....
> Corbynista agenda....
>
> 2.99% council tax rise
> 8.00% GLA rise
> Extension of double yellow lines to create parking
> pressure across the area to help justify stealth
> taxes...
> £125 a year for a CPZ parking permit sold on false
> and misleading info
> £30 a year to have your brown bins emptied

Putting your garden waste in your neighbours bin ... Priceless

For everything else there is Mastercard (other makes of credit cards are available when paying off the council)

--------------------
Artful

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Lebanums March 29, 12:13PM

slarti b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard that, if you paid the fee, you would get a
> sticker for the brown bin. The paper sacks would
> continue but would need to be purchased.
>
> I can see the logic in charging for what is
> effectively a garden waste service but there needs
> to be some advance communication about this and
> the implication thought though and explained.
>
> Probably worth checking with local councillors, I
> may put something up on their thread.

A sticker? Not sure they have through that through, like the sticker couldn't be removed or the bin swapped "rolls eyes"

On another note, our food waste also goes into the brown bin, what will happen to that?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by AylwardS April 02, 07:02AM

Councillor McAsh has posted this in response to questions on the Councillors thread.

Hi all

The garden waste charge collection will be introduced from 3 June, not April. There will be communication to everyone in properties with kerbside collection this week, and an FAQ section will be put on the council website this month to better explain the new system.

In the meantime, let me cover a few key points:
- Food waste collection will remain free. The council is buying new food waste containted to ensure that people still have this service.
- The service will be charged per financial year. This means that the 2019/20 charge will be reduced pro rata to £25 for the first year.
- You can still take garden waste to the Devon Street recycling centre for free.
- Adhesive stickers will be sent to those who have paid in June. After a grace period, the council will remove brown bins without stickers.

Siduhe - do you mean the bags you can buy for £10 for 20? They will go up to £15 but I think that's the only change.

Best wishes
James

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by singalto April 02, 09:23AM

How is the sticker system going to work?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 April 02, 09:31AM

Badly

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by TheArtfulDogger April 02, 10:45AM

I'm curious about the cost of implementing this new system

New smaller brown caddies don't grow on trees, and if say 75% of brown bin users take them up then what's that cost ?

The existing brown bins, where people don't want to pay, will then be taken away and then what ? Disposed off or stored, again there is a cost to this exercise

Paying veolia to monitor which bins have stickers on and ensure they get back to the property they came from will add to the bill

Monitoring of waste to make sure garden waste doesn't end up in green bins or dumped will require more enforcement officers, again at a cost and possible intrusive rummaging through your bins.

Clearing up after garden waste is just dumped which includes, like other boroughs, the removal of abandoned Christmas trees from the streets will again comes at a cost

Weigh that against the loss of revenue from not getting garden waste to turn into compost, the low numbers who will agree to pay the new charge and you have to question if the pros really do outweigh the cons for the council especially as the collection crews will still be emptying food caddies on a weekly basis.


I have a feeling that if the council officers continue to treat residents as a cash point (CPZ, parking fees in parks, brown bin tax ...) then I really wouldn't like to be in the shoes of our current councillors come the next local election unless they do their job and stand up for the people who elected them.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 April 02, 10:53AM

But the majority of Southwark residents don't live in leafy suburbs with gardens - those who do should be paying even more for that privilege than they already do through their community charge. Maybe it will encourage them to pave over their gardens and have properly organised lives, without unnecessary greenery blighting the urban landscape. And it will get rid of those nasty flying insects, reduce the hayfever scourge, improving air quality - who wants to smell mown grass or lawn clippings? And we will certainly be paving any front gardens, so we can park our cars and vans. It's all to the good. Help stamp out nature by making it too expensive for the ordinary Joe. Who won't be able to get easily to the parks now if they are not prepared to walk. So that will keep the parks free of the elderly and those with young children. It's just a win win win for everyone!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by spider69 April 02, 12:24PM

What happens in the Autumn when the leaves come down. I usually clear the pavement in front of my house and neighbours putting the leaves, and there are a lot, into the brown bins.

With my council tax now raised to over £2000+ I will not be doing it this year. No one else does it as most of the houses are split into flats. Southwark just let them pile up. Accidents will happen resulting in compensation claims.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by worldwiser April 02, 11:00PM

The garden sacks you pay for seem to be in a section of Southwark's website that deals with flats and estates. Does that mean houses can't use them?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by edcam April 03, 01:42PM

As spider69 says above, I frequently sweep up leaves outside our place and put them in our brown bin, as thee aren't enough street cleaners to cover this adequately. I'm not going to play for a brown bin and do the council's job for them.

Also, other people frequently use our brown bin, despite there being plenty on the street. If some are removed, more of other people's waste will go in a bin which only I am paying for. This is all a very bad idea. I suspect I'll take to concealing the garden rubbish in the green bin. That won't help anyone.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by gumshoe April 10, 10:32PM

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

Haven’t received anything through the post yet but it’s on Southwark’s website now - sign up opens May 1st.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella April 10, 11:09PM

I'm confused - if we can't use the brown bins any longer for good waste where does it go? The link still refers to brown bins for good waste. If we can't use the brown bins presumably we can ask for them to be taken away?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by gumshoe April 11, 07:02AM

I think any without the permit stickers will be removed by the council after a certain date.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by TheArtfulDogger April 11, 10:36AM

I applaud the council for bringing this scheme in as part of their drive to make people pay for the services they use as per the quote below from their own frequenly asked questions ( [www.southwark.gov.uk] )

"We have seen over time that not everyone who receives garden waste collections is actually making use of the service. We believe that it is fairer that only those using the service contribute towards the running of it."

Obviously the council will be reducing council tax for those of us who don't retain their brown garden waste bins as that is what this semi-implies !

I look forward to getting a £30 reduction for not usin a bin along with a reduction for not parking in the parks, a reduction if I don't park in the street and if they take it further a reduction for not using the library, for not walking on the pavements, for not going out at night (removing my need to pay for street lighting) and so on

In fact if I live like a hermit, not going out and not using any services then I could end up being paid to live here ...

Or have I read the statement above incorrectly and this is in fact just another Stelth tax because they have already asked for the maximum tax rise without a referendum ?

Surely even Southwark don't think we are that stupid , do they ?

I also thought that this scheme would remove the need for all the bins in my front garden, but no, there is another sting in the tail , if you retain your brown bin you can't use it for food as well, everyone needs to now request another food bin as per this quote "From 1 June we will be asking residents to present their garden waste and food waste for collection in separate designated containers." Taken from their very own FAQs

My word another bin to clutter up drives, gardens and streets. I wonder if it's a different colour and slowly we will get a rainbow bin collection outside every home ?


Come on Southwark, don't pretend it's a cost saving exercise for residents, it's a revenue making exercise that will result in more clutter and fines if you put the wrong things in the wrong bins.

Any idea if it's possible to raise a vote of no confidence in council officers or is this something our seemingly spineless local councillors should be fighting for us as they represent the people and not the council (James over to you)

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by diable rouge April 11, 11:34AM

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I look forward to getting a £30 reduction for not
> usin a bin along with a reduction for not parking
> in the parks, a reduction if I don't park in the
> street and if they take it further a reduction for
> not using the library, for not walking on the
> pavements, for not going out at night (removing my
> need to pay for street lighting) and so on

This. I make use of the garden waste bins and realise that there are many people who don't yet contribute to the upkeep of the service. But equally I contribute to services that I along with many other people don't use, such as the library. Are the Council going to charge them too at the point of entry? This is nothing more that a money making exercise, as well as being worse for the environment i.e. more plastic bins and car pollution...

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 April 11, 11:47AM

Not to mention, but I have, education charges for those without children (or whose children do not use the state system)... The idea of graduated taxation is that everyone pays according to their means (or a proxy thereof like property values) and uses according to their need. Once you start distinguishing, and charging for, separate elements of a service (or indeed entire services) then people not using any service feel that they shouldn't then be paying towards it, particularly when they are being asked to pay separately for a service they do use.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella April 11, 12:42PM

So which bin for food waste?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by goldilocks April 11, 12:51PM

In addition to the ideological issues with this on a taxing basis, charging for brown bins on garden waste is the most nonsensical bin to charge for (apart from the obvious easy target!)

It is my understanding that garden waste is taken to large compost bins and then sold back to us so essentially in reducing the amount of garden waste collected there will be less compost available?

In addition, the most likely outcome for some people will be to hide this in their other bins or to hard landscape their gardens (Fake grass / decking / concrete) all of which will have a negative impact on the biodiversity of our area.

To the extent that the council wanted to influence behaviour they'd be looking for differential charging on green bins as the non recyclable waste. Charging for brown bins is just a backward step here.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?attachment
Posted by dresswaves April 11, 01:21PM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So which bin for food waste?

The brown caddy bins

Attachments: IMG_0224.jpg (131.4KB)  
messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by spider69 April 11, 04:30PM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So which bin for food waste?

"Thank you for your email.

Because of the massive level of year-on-year cuts from government in its grants to the council, we have had to take the decision to join the majority of other London councils that already charge for the collection of garden waste. The £30 per year (£25 in the first year) charge that we are introducing will be one of the lowest in London and will start from June.

Food waste, which will remain free for collection, should be put in a new food waste bin that the council will shortly be delivering to you. This will be much smaller than the brown bin and so hopefully should not create too much additional clutter.

Best wishes

Councillor Richard Livingstone
Cabinet member for Environment, Transport Management and Air Quality
Labour councillor for Old Kent Road Ward
London Borough of Southwark

How hollow does the same old reply seem when they can keep spending to replace existing equipment already in use.

This thought did enter my mind,

Out of interest where will the garden waste end up and where will the food waste end up. At the same place for decomposing? and will three separate collection vehicles be used on collection day? Blue or green along with large brown bin and now small brown bin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 11, 04:32pm by spider69.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by sandyman April 11, 05:26PM

"Food waste, which will remain free for collection, should be put in a new food waste bin that the council will shortly be delivering to you. This will be much smaller than the brown bin and so hopefully should not create too much additional clutter."

so people that pay for the garden waste service will now have four bins in their front garden. And they won't even be matching sizes. Lovely.

If food and garden waste end up going to same place why have the smaller caddy if you've paid for the bigger one?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 11, 05:26pm by sandyman.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by tomskip April 11, 07:30PM

Sandyman - you'll have the smaller one because food waste collection will still be free of charge. If you don't fill your large brown bin with garden waste every week then ask the council to take it back. If you have such a large garden that you generate a lot of garden waste, then you'll have room for a compost bin or compost heap. The rest of the time you can use the paper sacks. My small brown bin sits outside the back door until collection day so we only have 2 bins (and the green one is a small size one despite us being a family of 4 adults yet somehow we manage) in our front garden now. It's not rocket surgery.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella April 12, 12:52AM

Southwark needs to clarify the position on food waste and the brown bin situation. The above posts all contradict each other so hopefully when householders are notified of this change this will be made clear. A bad political decision.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by dimples April 12, 01:56AM

Tomskip , do you not have a blue bin to recycle ?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by tomskip April 12, 11:13AM

Yes Dimples, 1 blue bin, 1 small green bin, 1 brown kerbside caddy (kept outside the back door) therefore 2 bins in my front garden. We got rid of our large brown bin years ago as it is an eyesore and not needed.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by spider69 April 12, 11:42AM

You may not have needed the brown bin but many of us do so cannot understand why the brown bin cannot be used as per now for garden clippings and food wast.

No one has answered as to how many dust carts will now be needed to collect from all these bins, 4 now in total



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 12, 11:51am by spider69.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 April 12, 01:25PM

The worrying part is when they say, 'we've noticed not many people take advantage of this service'. Which I know for a fact it's because people who live in the same street as me put their rubbish in the big massive bins that they have in flats. Because for some reason they don't want the bin man to know what rubbish they are throwing out.

Which means 2 things. Another charge for the green and blue bins as no one is using them.
Or it means the council will soon start collecting them less.

It's a load of nonsense, even if you want to keep your brown bin you still have to get another one.

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