mockney piers

Ha ha, so true. Some great goals yesterday. Future England stalwart Noble with a cracker too!! Hats off to Wigan, had to feel sorry for Hull though a fair result ultimately. Man City rode their luck a bit, I think they could end up being the new Keegan's Newcastle. Is there an adjective for that btw?

A brace last night. First up W. (I guess pronounced dubya) a bit lightweight for an Oliver stone biopic (forgetting please te awful Doors) but entertaining, and quite weird feeling oodles of sympathy for George Bush. Recommended in an 'if it's on telly' fashion. Secondly, as I'm sure many dont read the horror thread, 'Let the Right One In' if you never look at the horror shelves make one exception. It's more of a coming of age love story, pretty in pink meets the lost boys via miss smillas feeling for snow. Truly excellent cinema, best fairy tale since Pans Labyrinth.

God you are an arse sometimes quids. What on earth has acknowledgement of higher corruption in those countries have to do with the 'great European project'? Italy is horribly corrupt (dark heart of Italy is a recommended read btw), Spain endemically nepotistic, France has awful political corruption, Germany I'm afraid I know little about in this arena. That's just how they operate irrespective of European cooperation or integration. If you're talking about Brussels, commission's wasteful and profligate nature, how our MPs have nothing on MEPs they are also fair points. I think you overestimate your power to offend us poor little sensitive middle classes sometimes you know. It's petty compared to the rife Kleptocracies mentioned above though. Our MPs' scandal was really quite petty really barring one or two it was a storm in a teacup. Al Yamamah single handedly threw us about 6 places down the corruption index, those arethe sorts of things we have to watch out for.

Cor and blimey. Just finished watching 'Let the Right One In' the aforementioned Swedish horror film. Easily best film in the genre I've seen in a very long time. Asian horror eat your heart out (err so to speak), the swedes are here. Wow, just wow. No cliches, no stock in trade chills or frights, none of that ramp the tension up music. Just a great story, brillaint direction, fine fine performances from the young leads and, just wow. Watch it. Even if youre not a horror fan, in fact especially not, I'm not even convinced it's a horror film really, though if you're squeamish you might struggle a bit mind... Anyway, in summary, breezes. Oh, and Wow!!!!

Gunn fired shurely?

Wow first managerial scalp of the season gone already. No hanging around there. Ooh, norwich's Bryan gunn btw I wonder if those chaps will get their season tickets back now

Quite agree ted, they are, on the whole, so far remved from the cliche of the dope smoking chilled anything goes image it's actually funny. They are incredibly open about sex mind you. In fact that was generally the topic of conversation that left the Brits nonplussed. - yesh, my wife and I had shexual intercourshe lasht night. I had to exshamine my wrist watch twishe before we both came. Cue hilarity around table among Dutch, embarrassed and confused shuffling among Brits who swear blind they can hear the chirruping of crickets.

Oh SimonM, predicted that scoreline from you!! ;-P

Funny you should say that, working in Amsterdam at lunch time it was quite a regular occurence for a Dutch person to make a comment that would have all the Dutch in stitches while we'd look at each other and shrug. The exact reverse would also occur alot. Note that we did share alot of humour but certain strands just wouldn't cross the cultural divide at all. I might add that none of them found the fast show 'he ish my colleague and alsho my lover' sketch in the least bit funny. :)

Has it ever been funny. Do we have an example of one?

No probs, more noticing that Man U have recently faltered very early on, say losing two games in the first month, people write them out of the championship and then they go and win it. I predicted them regardless over the last three seasons. I've a feeling Chelsea will do it this time, but it's just a hunch as we've yet to really see how they operate under ancelotti, if they'd kept Guus I reckon they'd have been a shoe in. But I wouldn't be the first to underestimate united in recent years would I.

Can we make that Fulham 1 by the way, even on a forum where 8-0 is uncannily comonplace that's a tad OTT!!

Aston Villa 2 Wigan 0 Blackburn 2 Man City 0 Bolton 1 Sunderland 1 Chelsea 3 Hull 0 Everton 2 Arsenal 2 Portsmouth 1 Fulham 21 Stoke 1 Burnley 0 Wolverhampton 0 West Ham 1 Man Utd 0 Birmingham 0 Tottenham 2 Liverpool 1 and oi keef, no! West stand is bigger than anything at Anfield, awight!!!

As you can tell the Paul shane clip. Just very very wrong!!!!

Oh dear god. Just had a look. Car crash bad, all of them, that bloke and his weird flahing eyes, owww. What were they thinking?!?!?

Ha ha, sorry, Feeling a bit weird today in general, I think I really need that holiday. I think we are actually all mostly in agreement. Yes I overdid it saying it's not about healthcare. Of course it is, was just making the point that it's the focus in a wider debate about the movement of American politics, that there being the perception on both sides that there's a great deal more at stake than universal healthcare (or not) will inflame emotions. Here the debate has been more or less static since the Major era, with political debate being down to mechanism of fine tuning and levels of commitment to spending. Much less exciting ;)

No need to maintain it's a political debate, it's what I've been saying all along. "nice to read something informative and interesting." fine....*gives up and flounces*

Ah I see. Sorry I was unintentionally conflating a couple of issues with that point. Two seperate things. 1 there were many who were happy to use smear tactics against Obama of which asserting that he's Muslim was one. 2 There is an assertion that European social democracy has failed and is corrupt and weak and there is a weird obsession with this idea of the demographic time bomb. It's all misinformation and half-truths but it's commonly accepted by many that, say France and the UK are n years (usually somewhere between 10 and 20) away from being Sharia caliphates, I kid you not. It's a suprisingly commonly held belief, indeed it's a bestselling book, check amazon. I know I've engaged in 'debate' with these people on other fora.

thanks for that and good for you monica. Anyway had a think and a dig around and tace is the singular imperative, tacete would be second person plural which is probably more appropriate. I don't know whether this makes sense in Latin, but a literal translation of remain silent is: Remanete Silens this can actually be remain still as well as silent as it goes. Hope that helps. Any more thoughts and indeed details about this exhibition.

All change engenders fear, and the birth if the NHS here took quite a bit of strong arming frankly, noone has found the perfect model for health care provision. It just seems weird to me that "lower health insurance premiums" is a vote winner and "universal health care" is so incredibly controversial. It seems a no-brained to me to take health provision out of the hands of the insurance industry. But as I said it snt really about that, it is about less vs more government essentially.

I'm not sure who's asserting that it is a religious issue. But the religious right are a huge force in the opposition to Obama. As MM states you can't disassociate them because they're intertwined for so many. Again we're discussing the hysteria. Again for the majority it's a red herring but they're not the ones hefting their guns are they?

I think you're missing my point slightly MM. Of course there is a huge debate going o. About the costs, practicities and needs of universal health care in the US. But it's not a debate that exactly inflames passions is it. On fact that's the ground of most British politics hence why so many find it yard to engage with it. As I saw it the OP was asking why such hysteria on an essentially dull issue, that's what I was attempting to address, it was not intended to be an explanation that excludesthe existence of a much larger and more sensible debate about costs and viabilities. There is a sense in the US that America has hit a cross roads, that something isn't working anymore, post 9/11 and Iraq but more importantly post Katrina and another Wall St crash. Some conclude that the neoliberal experiment has failed others see it as the death throes of the new deal. That is the battle that is being fought.

Eleventyonethed. I don't who the pretty one is but she drew a lady's bottom in my Guinness. Top lass!

Ooh, number three!! Prawn won ton with sweet and sour sauce.

Health care is the battle line that's been drawn, but it's nothing to do with the war which is about the kind of society the US will be and the direction it's moving to. The election was a particularly divisive one because the stakes were so high on this. The Christian right have lost that election but they're keen not to allow the US to move towards the European model of social democracy or godless communism sleepwalking into destruction by the Muslim demographic timebomb, as they like to call it. It's not really about health at all and I can guarantee you it's not about being rational. That's the problem for the centrist progressives, it's not soundbitey, it's not sexy. Even the vast majority of those on the right are rational, if chagrined and disturbed at the changes Obama wants to bring about, but it's much easier to have an impact and make a noise when you're a nutter shouting down a senator or a right wing shock jock or, heaven forbid, Ann Coulter.