mockney piers

Bolton 1 Liverpool 2 Arsenal 2 Aston Villa 0 (I remember seeing this at highbury a few years back, 3-0 down to win 4-3 was it?, One Paul Merson scoring for Villa, great game) Blackburn 1 Sunderland 1 Fulham 2 Tottenham 4 Man Utd 2 Stoke City 0 Newcastle 1 Wigan 2 West Ham 1 Portsmouth 0 (clean sheet and a win, go on Zola, break all this season's bad habits) West Brom 0 Chelsea 2 Everton 1 Middlesbrough 0 Hull City 1 Man City 0

It could never happen today fortunately. Thanks to the miracle of outsourcing, noone ever need know ;-)

Every youth who stabs another youth and spends the next 20 years behind bars had that choice. The point is they still make the wrong choice!! People make the wrong choices all the time, from being unable to give up smoking when they know it's killing them, through driving too fast in a 30 zone (kills more kids than just about anything else) through to th really nasty crimes. Addressing the situation is about trying to fix the things that have broken in a wider sense, and putting systems in place to prevent those for whom the system has been a failure and will commit crimes. I apologise for my outburst, but I didn't feel focussing on the gory details was helping a discussion on such an emotive subject.

OK Cassius. Go take a gun and do something about it a la Jack Ruby, money where your mouth is now you've upset moos. No one is denying the horror and sickness of what happened, so what exactly is your point? While you're at it kill Tony Blair who single handedly (with the help of his spineless party and GB ) dragged this country in to a war where tens of thousands of innocent children have died a horrific death; focus on that for a while, maybe I should post up some pictures just so you can really wallow in the horror, or is even the mention of Iraq too bloody bleeding heart liberal for the lynch mob brigade?

The system's imperfect because people are imperfect, if they weren't there wouldn't be any need for safety nets and social services (leave alone wars and stuff you know) in the first place. With that blindingly obvious truism aside, we have to accept that an average of 5 children will be killed by strangers every year. we can try to be careful as parents and individuals but it boils down to luck if the weirdo will be in your neighbourhood when he strikes. Likewise 3,000 people will die on our roads this year, and next year. Cars are better and safer, but people aren't, some are accidents waiting to happen, that's just what people are. People like this, or michael ryan will occasionally go a bit postal and something horrible will occur. There always seems to be a need to call out for blame. And maybe something could have been done. I'm willing to bet this chap had an alcoholic abusive father, I'm willing to bet this woman has gone through cycle after cycle of dependency on abusive partners, I'm willing to bet this chap is an alcoholic himself, a failure, abusive, a bully, pone to uncontrollable rage. There are a trillion points along both these people's chains that someone could have helped, a social worker when they were young and vulnerable, a doctor who could have spotted the signs, a teacher who could have nurtured some self belief, a neighbour who didn't turn a blind eye/ear, a different path could have been chosen,. Likewise in their own descent into addiction and despair there would have been any number of points of failure and who are we to say it was this social worker or this supervisor's fault. People slip through the net all the time, and this woman is probably near institutionalised in her lifelong dealings with the welfare state and doubtless her almost pathological need to deal with it from a point of deceit. These people slipped through the net and the level of abuse wasn't predicted, hindsights a bitch isn't she. As the old expression goes, shit happens. Let's earn from it and move on, but do you know what, we'll have another story like this next year. Sorry. ps I've made a million assumptions above, but no more than anyone else professing to know the details of the case intimately having read the metro/sun/mail/guardian (delete as appropriate) pps though I may doubt the chances myself, does noone believe in the possibility of redemption, jeez didn't anyone like that morgan freeman character?

Yeah, that Spain are rubbish aren't they, classic chokers, ever the bridesmaid never the bride......oh....wait.....

Top post Rosie. I too knew someone in Family Law and some of her tales (sans details obviously) could turn your hair grey overnight. There is a prevalence of domestic abuse at levels we'd really prefer not to face up to. Clearly noone in government has proposed doing anything beyond firefighting a scratched surface (terrible mixed metaphor there). More money and more professionals are needed, as you say backlashes like this can only serve to put people off entering social services.

I would of course go with Dean Ashton over Van Persie!!

cool, a pint is on order then. Can do sunday afternoon or some time next week after work, which I imagine is better for you?

I've an iffy copy that someone bunt for me, guilt free as I'll be buying it soon for sure. It's on 2 discs on avi format which doesn't like Macs for some reason if you want to borrow it.

The montage at the end of Generation Kill (very Wire) is to this; made the hairs on my arms stand up I can tell you Johnny Cash - When the Man Comes Around

Seriously, that Gomes is a liability, any cash at all available in the transfer window? (I know we don't)

Touch?

If you're slurring a lot I do hope that doesn't make you slurry. Mind you, SB does smell ;)

I'm at a loss as to who you think they were putting first. Armchair punditry over a football manager's ability is fine, but we have no idea what these people see day in day out, the nastiness, hatred, bile, depression, suffering, hope, failure, love, addiction, ignorance, pressure, bureaucracy, care, fulfilment and despair that go with the job and the people they interact with. Calling for the sackings of experienced people based upon the ignorant bleatings of a savage media who have seized upon one case is frankly disgusting. I for one have the utmost respect for these people. Incompetents do function in every walk of life (god knows I've suffered enough idiotic self-serving project and departmental managers in my time) and if an independent investigation finds that to be the case then so be it, heaven forbid they ever have to answer to the mob justice or the sort of kangaroo court judgements offered here.

"But you really can't get round the fact that this child had a horrible life / death." Nope, no you can't. And your point? Social services had already placed the child with a foster carer for a short time, but every child, if at all possible will be placed with the natural parent. There was some previous evidence of bruising and miscare, but the mother kicked up a real stink to get her child back, which she managed. There was no evidence as far as I can see (in the hysterical press) that any abuse of this level was to be expected. Now imagine for a moment that the child had died in the care of some dodgy foster parent who had somehow slipped by some check, because noone has the time or resources to really follow all these things through. Witness the recommendations re hiring school staff following Soham, which have been fully implemented basically nowhere. Plus a life going through care homes and foster homes can basically screw up an individual for life, even subject them to terrible abuse (Jersey or Catholic priests anyone?). As someone said, damned if you do... All told, terrible story, there will be an investigation and as Keef says recommendations will follow, but money will not be released to try and achieve this. Nowhere near the resources will be about to deal with poverty, mental health, drug/alcohol abuse that is prevalent in so many areas of the country. It's much cheaper just to talk in Parliament about "being tough". There are bad people, neglectful people,screwed up people, and I'm sure the law and justice system will continue to operate and judge on a case-by-case basis, but what we really need is investment in the social net, not emotional flaggellation and shouts of bring back hanging, it won't bring this child back nor prevent it happening again.

hear hear D_C

Exactly right Ted, and precisely what I'm doing and how I'm soundtracking it.

Sign me up for one of those D_C. I'm figuring Jim Snow's album will be a Trip-Hop ode to the stark beauty of the Faroe Isles, featuring the vocals of Beth Gibbons. Can't wait.

I think I mentioned it before, but I'm highly highly recommending this one Ted Barnes, portal nou. http://www.myspace.com/tedbarnes Having had my flirtation with freeform jazz influenced by the ibizan rhythms of the second summer of love and clasic eruo trash (sort of John Coltrane meets amnesia via 2 unlimited) Sexuality split and I decided upon a collaborative work for my next project: Mitsubishi Agricultural Machinery with the marvellous There is Money in it. yeah yeah, 5 words, pronouns count two thirds.

Oh my God D_C, that's almost the Midlake album cover you have there!! My band, Sexuality, publish their debut The Third Row Exists? with the cover:

The Greendale had a certain reputation, shared by many council estate pubs, of being a bit rough around the edges. Oriwisu spot now reflects much the new demographic of the greendale estate of being a Nigerian pub, and seemed as safe as any pub I've been to in ED. It's a bit cheap formica, with carpet that can set your hair alight if you're wearing polyester, but the staff are friendly, the clientele vary between welcoming to nonplussed at a bunch of strangers in their pub. But the beer is fine and damnably cheap, and it has a pool table and isn't averse to a gold old lock-in.

I bet the area was a green dale before it was a wan ley though!

When all else fails, there's always a gamefaq walkthrough I avoid them wherever possible, but if it's really got me stumped, and lets face it, some puzzle solutions are flippin arbitrary!!

there is no evidence anywhere to be found using google, other than a photo of their carpet, though lord knows who took that...... *whistles*