mockney piers

August looking pretty dodgy for me weekend wise.

As usual both sides have it. Atheism is indeed a denial of one god, you need to be a polyatheist to deny them all. It can be as much a stance as a lack of one. Catholics have a word for those of the latter, which is practical atheism, the former I guess is of the Dawkins variety. What Brendan is referring to is strictly speaking a political debate and one that is very big in the States and makes for fascinating viewing. There is something akin to fundamentalist atheism going on over there, though perhaps a new label needs to be created for that political brand of atheism. It's more than just the separation of faith and State, something that's bubbling up here and much more critically in Turkey right now. It's something akin to an identity crisis of what and who the nation represents, hence why tempers are so high over there. Personally I love the approach of my US/Croat friend when I was with him at a Catholic wedding in N Wales last Friday. his Catholicism is very strong in him, a huge part of his identity and a great source of comfort, though he doesn't really hold with all that walking on water, resurrection and eternal life nonsense. This is very much what I find on the continent and why it doesn't figure so much over there...well except in good old rationalist France, but France is always its own damn thing isn't it.

Seriously Atila, take a deep breath. I think your red mist has seen more racism than actually existed. There won't be any free Guinness in Dublin tonight would almost e certainly the sort of thing John Motson would say on Ireland getting knocked out. Football ribbing is banter and you're happy enough to do that, so why are you taking this one so seriously. Plus he's probably technically correct, Germany probably will win and if I go to the lane tonight I bet you I don't manage to get a free kebab...or Guinness for that matter.

Unless you're a septuagenarian in real danger of breaking your hip, can't you just phone up and suggest they put a bt of tape around it, or talk to the Bishop. What is this, the United States? Missus Mockney got tumbled into a proper hole outside the Cherry a couple of years back (by a drunken forumite who shall remain unnamed). When she went back the next day the staff at at the Cherry were really defensive and frankly scared until she assured them that she just wanted tape around it to stop it happening to others. plus she was knocked unconscious, she didn't just scrape her knee. Come on people, some perspective here. ps it was Keef ;)

Follow the Gourd!!! No, follow the shoe!

Ha ha, brilliant Mark, he seems to have kept his sense of humour anyway.

Indeed Brendan, true spirituality comes from a genuine search for meaning, not in a rote obedience to a bunch of written tenets and rules, that's just subservience and a means to absolve oneself of the need to question. Questioning things is hard, no matter whether it's religion, leaders, peers or generally accepted truths.

Or is a spiritual experience the result of a chemical imbalance (it sure was for me on lysergic acid diethylamide). Or, as the old expression goes, there are no atheists in foxholes.

I'd volunteer a night of Saffron...plus I get a loyal customer discount!!!

What's with all this bashing other nations, aren't we in twenty first century Europe, haven't we put all that behind us yet? I really don't hold grudges against Fritz. Sooo the Bosh are better than us at penalties, who's fault is that. If we can't beat the Hun in 120 minutes then we only have ourselves to blame. Personally I want the Krauts to win this game then lose to the Spics in the Final. In fact there are so many teams that have put one over on us, shouldn't we hate everyone by now? (remeber the Aussies (do we have a good pejorative term for them?) at Upton Park with that massive "If we beat you at this you suck at EVERYTHING" banner?)

Sorry, only just come back to planet earth. I couldn't believe it when Fabregas said that was the first penalty of his professional career, what a moment to start. If Spain can throw off this jinx then maybe...juuust maybe. Mind you, if Russia play like they did the other night it'll be very very tough, but we could be in for a real footying treat. Either way I'm really glad that Italy didn't get through regardless of my Spain fan status, such negative football has no place in my view,;I hope Germany wins for the same reason. Though I'm still highly impressed by Turkey's never-say-die spirit (something England can learn from) I'm much less impressed by their football.

yep, and Spain are _even_ worse than England at those!!

Italians doing exactly what I thought they would, and I've horrible feeling it's going to work as when they actually do push up (once a half so far) they look dangerous, towering over our team of dwarves as they do!! Ho hum, fingers crossed for the second half.

Hat's off to Turkey, they really don't give up do they. It was a pretty cynical gameplan but it worked, it could work against group germany, but I think it'll come a cropper to this new fangled quarter finals germany. I've a bad feeling that a similar game will serve Italy well against Spain and that'll be m number one AND two teams out at the quarters. Holland Germany final? Could be. I called Germany to begin with and my head says it still will, heart saying holland (well, Spain if we can beat the bloody Italians*) *oh, and I'm pretty sure I said they'd get through the group too

I do to, but fingers crossed they don't. Holland should field a strong team, it's more important to maintain momentum and winning ways than to rest players There will only be 3 more games after all!!

Have you seen those USB sticks that are cassette shaped and come in a cassette holder...errr..holder? Marvellous. This will take non work time to put together unfortunately...I'll be back

oooh great cross post F.O. - hah, Foreign Office ;)

By shoving them in an illegal offshore camp indefinitely with no recourse to rule of law or the judiciary whatsoever? Nice plan.

ID Cards, I'm against, I've stated a number of times, but by and large agree with Marmora Man that it's a shift in philosophy of which I don't approve. CCTV, not intrinsically against them, but they do two things. Firstly give people a false sense of security, recent survey showed a surprisingly low figure are of any use in terms of whether they work, whether their resolution is useful, whether they are monitored or whether they are recorded or the recording used. Police also admitted they never have the manpower/time to look through them anyway except in high profile cases. Intersetingly your average oik knows this full well and doesn't pay them the blindest bit of attention. Secondly they contribute to the general sense of fear and paranoia that is prevalent these days, so are counterproductive in that sense. As a photographer (enthusiast) this has stretched to people getting uppity about my taking photos of their CCTVs, and of taking photos in public in genereal...yes that's right I'm a terrorist, and of course I shouldn't take photos of your useless camera, that makes me bad, but it's fine for you to monitor me is it? As for 42 days, STB's ridiculous assertion that it's terrorists that are being locked up is about as wilfully facile as you can get. He should know full well that perhaps second to Bloody Sunday, the biggest propoganda coup handed to the republicans was internment, and this is no different. Of those arrested under terror laws (not counting council tax shirkers and people heckling in labour conferences) only a small proportion have gone on to have a subsequent charge. These have returned to their communities feeling abused, persecuted with no hint of an apology, and this is before we get to Forest Gate, no doubt STB approves of shooting terrorists too does he? If we had a perfect police force and perfect intelligence and perfectly intentioned politicians then fine, but we all know this not to be the case.

I was having difficulty with this story until I realised you meant Kingston, Jamaica, not the one in Surrey...makes more sense now.

Stroke, go rubbish, no ability to express self, consign loved one to care for one self, she may not endure, be bullied by "care workers"...die. Losing faculty of language scares the utter shit out of me....pardon my french......

Did it give me my dinner?

I've been there three times, they are all terrifying....absolutely.....terrifying, there is no not terrifying. My advice is write your best thoughts, keep it witty and be true, just say I love you to everyone, for why would you not. Plus, if you like, i can lend you a speech.

Great stuff. There just aren't enough billiard rooms any more.

Mahouuuu