DJKillaQueen

I too think that would make a significant difference. The moving of the bus stop and lengthening of bus lane is a major cause of the subsequent problems for eastbound traffic at this junction. Renata is right though about bureacracy and planning. It's been the way of london for centuries, hence the poorly designed nature of our city. Edited to add though that I agree with others that the changes made to the lights have seemed to improve things a little over the past couple of days.

I think we forget though (or don't realise/ know) just how hard it is for someone at the lowest end of our society to get back up. I've just finished reading a book called 'A Streetcat Named Bob' and the most striking thing to me from it (and it's a true story) is just how even the homeless are fighting amongst themselves to survive. We do expect the state to take care of all these tihngs, and mental health issues can be included in that but the state alone is not enough. My view is that we do have a socially collective responsibility to look after those within our local communities who need help. Most of us have far more than we need and most of us are where we are by nothing more than an accident of birth. Ostracisation of anyone from a community because they are poor or suffer from mental health issues is only going to damage them further.

London is more than capable of coping with rare tragic incidents like this. To try and turn it into a rallying cry to the public to fight public sector cuts is shameful Minder.

I don't pretend to have any answers. I can give examples though of several young people, who have interests in gardening or mechanics and were absolutely fine when shown how to do something or trained on the job, but failed the one day a week they had to spend at college. The result being they failed their NVQs and haven't been able to get a start in employment. Even when looking at long term unemployed (and discounting illness), we see patterns of manual workers made redundant (usually after factories closed) and young people who have never got started. Whilst improving literacy and numeracy should always be an aim of any society, we have to also accept that there are people who are never going to be able to pen push, write reports, and pass exams.....all an impact of a move away from manufacturing and agriculture to service industries. A balanced economy needs a balanced range of unskilled amd skilled jobs, both manual and hi-tech. There has almost certainly begun the development of an unemployable underclass since the demise of manufaturing and industry. And sadly I can only see things getting worse. Technology will continue to advance and the need for labour drop. I'm not sure there even is an answer.

But here's the issue LM. Labour tried that.....pushing kids through colleges they didn't want to be at because they couldn't do the academic stuff. There will always be a sizeable section of a society that don't respond to formal education, or can't achieve the higher required skills base needed for the modern world. In the past they would be employed digging our railways, or building our ships, and they could start as apprentices and learn on the job to become semi-manual-skilled workers and often paid well for it. THOSE jobs and industries don't exist anymore......and those people are truly locked out of the employment market, unless we change something.

Thank you for that Renata. No mention of action to curb drivers and buses using the wrong side of the road though. I think everyone would hope the changes make the junction safer, but none of the changes address the issues of weight of traffic using the junction at peak times. The only change that will make a difference is the right trun filter light eastbound. But this will happen at the cost of less time for other traffic in other directions to flow through.....so longer queues westbound. The other issue is the bus lane on EDR. It stops so close to the junction (because of the bus stop) that right turning traffic has to wait in line with all traffic. If the bus stop were to be moved 10 metres away from the junction then the filter light would be far more effective. All of this was pointed out and seemingly ignored.

3-1 on they give you the trots !!!

There's no better example of the unlevel playing feild between businesses within the same sector than the recent expose of Starbucks tax affairs, compared to say Costa (their biggest competitor). And yes, that does make people justifiably left feeling there's no fairness when it comes to the wealthy and large corporations.

I agree regarding the bashing of the rich too. It all stems from trying to find simple models of blame (from both sides) for what is a really complex issue. But that is also why 'one size fits all' solutions won't work either.

Burgers are a stable diet for some.

I think the title is in poor taste ;)

Dave..the changes to the junction will make very little difference to the existing problems. E-dealer.....lol.....but now you put it that way, dual carrageway sounds good ;)

Also the helipad is just the other side of that building. Reports say the Helicopter clipped the end of the arm of the crane. Seems to be a trajic accident caused by fog.

I too think benefits need to be more flexible for those returning to work or those offered one or two days work here and there (which at present they have to turn down or sign off). What has to be watched with that though is that employers don't then see that as an excuse to lower wages (a rise in the minimum wage could address that but again presents problems). I do think that many of the problems with the benefits system are mirrored by problems in the employment market. Businesses too are struggling to survive in the current climate. No-one wants to see a return to a pre-welfare society, but economically we are heading back to that. Technology has rendered formerly labour intensive employment areas redundant (especially unskilled work). This is something seen across all the developed nations. There needs to be a radical rethink but sadly those at the top, making the decisions, are the winners in this system. They are not touched by any of it.

I agree Nappylady. It is one of the great mysteries to my as to why there are no workers doing any work on roadworks at various times of day and night, and some days no work at all. I do think highway contractors do it deliberately to ramp up the cost (i.e. working part of a day and charging for the whole day). A job that could be done in five takes fifteen and is charged at three times the cost. I remember from the consultation process that any suggestion that involved using part of the parkside pavements was instantly regected because it was suggested that FOPR would launch a campaign against it (even though the Common isn't part of Peckham Rye Park). But in essence I agree......much better proposals have been ignored, and very little will be different at this junction once the works finish (and travelling east to west, may even be worse in peak hours).

I agree with all that MM but it also has to be mentioned that most of the jobs created over the past decade have been part time jobs. The reality is that we just don't have enough full time jobs out there, and with that jobs that pay enough. I totally agree that the economy can't sustain the current situation. But there is too much talk of those who depend on help from the state and not enough about the lack of jobs and industry etc. The way out of this mess is going to be growth in available employment, not creating an underclass of people at the edges of homelessness and/or starvation. I often like to give Sheffield as an axample (because it's home to Nick Clegg's constituency). In Sheffield, there is only one job on offer at any one time for every eight people on JSA (so we are not even counting those on other benefits). There is no way that any amount of bashing the unemployed is going to miraculously change that. And that's a scenario repeated all over the country outside of London and the South East. The reality is that we have too large a population with too few jobs to support it. THAT is where the government should be directing it's efforts to solve any of this.

The BBC said the pilot had asked to be diverted because of bad weather, so I'm guessing visibility was poor and visibility can change very quickly as we all know. Very sad. My thoughts go to the families of those who died x

Reddulwich is indeed spot on, and it's an ideology coming from top down. When Cameron talks about the worker leaving for work while the neighbour's curtains are still drawn' he is doing exactly the same thing. Except this statement is completely irresponsible of course, as the neighbour could be a shift worker, disabled, or still have the curtains drawn for a whole host of other valid reasons. Many people in receipt of benefits also do voluntary work. They are still unemployed but he doesn't mention them. Constant use of the media to spread messages of the drain on hard working people of the underserving poor are only going to have one impact. They absolutely know what they are doing and should be ashamed of themselves.

They also pay Council tax (Council tax benefit does not pay the entire amount).

I agree with you H on the terminology....of course it's not a tax (although the unemployed do pay taxes, and the benefits they receive count towards taxable income too). This issue is this. Benefits are paid to help those with no other income. In return they are expected to look for work which is right. Similarly, most people in receipt of benefits at any one time, HAVE worked at some point. Silly proposals like the one above (and I agree it is smoke and mirrors) are silly because they are aimed at penalising one group of people only, fueled specifically by an ideology that says those who don't work don't deserve anything, including health care. Back to the deserving and undeserving poor debate again. Most people on JSA will tell you that after they pay for heating, electric, water rates, they are left with barely enough to buy anything else but basic food. And many people on benefits don't turn the heating on at all (because of the cost). So if they do smoke, then it's often at the expense of food for example. This idea that people on benefits need nannying in how they spend the money is a myth, perpetuated by media hype about alcoholics and drug addicts (for example), neither of which the vast majority of people in receipt of benefits are. It is virtually impossible to live on ?67 per week, wherever you live in the country, without making either/ or decisions every day. The percentage of the welfare bill spent on JSA is so small in fact that the current hpye is a disgraceful campaign of misinformation designed to turn public opinion against the unemployed. The biggest slice of the welfare bill is spent on Pensioners, followed then by working tax credits and child benefits. Housing benefits follow that (where a million people in full time work need help). In fact...the vast majority of welfare goes to people in work or retired. Meanwhile, in all of ths hysteria, there is no plan for economic growth, regeneration or employment. And no meaningful help or plan to get the unemployed back into work.

You are not really reading what people are writing again H. The debate is about how many excuses we allow to penalise the poorest people in our society. You might want to see people left with nothing to buy food with, pay for heat and shelter with, but some of us are very aware of how destructive that is to people, many of whom find themselves where they are through no fault of their own. The unemployed and those on low incomes have enough to cope with and worry about, without people in positions and lives of privilege heaping ridiculous added conditions on them.

Good deal here...... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Matters-Plated-Premium-Adapter/dp/B004MS0DIK/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1358174536&sr=1-3

Try driving through it Chillaxed at peak hour and you'll have a different view, and if on foot, look out for vehicles coming down the wrong side of the road as you cross. It's unlikely the works will change anything at peak hours as they do nothing to help the weight of traffic at these junctions. The addition, an extra layer of phasing for right turning vehicles will in fact add to congestion from the other direction. The SCOOT system should make a difference at other times but won't do anything diffently when there are queues of traffic from all directions (as there are at peak hour). Apart from those two changes, there is nothing going to be significantly different at this junction. In fact, the bulk of the ideas proposed through the consultation process (in which I took part) have been ignored.

Like some of us have pointed out Renata....the pressing danger is vehicles, and particularly buses, driving down the wrong side of the road - totally illegal and extremely dangerous. That has to be stopped right away - before someone gets hurt. Another option might be to divert traffic travelling east to west (at peak hour), so that it doesn't go through the ED Raod junction at all (it can be done by making it turn right or left only, at the other junction of Nunhead Lane and Peckham Rye). In theory it should also help traffic flow from the other way at the ED Road junction, as there would be no barrier to cars turning right at the junction currently being worked on.

Would it be possible to get the timebank going again, and then have a thread for it here too. I'm definitely in....there are many things I hate doing (like ironing) which I'd happily trade other skills for :D