civilservant

> Someone will be accountable and we can vote them > out. like you managed to vote them out last time? get a grip, Foxy

why all this talk of separatism and wall-building? that's the province of the Out-ers. the EU was (is) about bringing down borders and allowing free movement and free trade. People like these for themselves but not for others - it was a selfish vote. so sorry to hear about your predicament, Working Mummy. there are many paradoxes - I've also got several European in-laws with British families who live and work and pay taxes in this country who weren't able to vote, unlike UK expats who could and may have even voted 'Out'. we can only wait and see how things work out for them and their families.

yes, Louisa, I agree but the point about the EU was that it was a dream of a better world - utopia in Europe - and part of the project was taking from richer countries and spreading it out a bit to poorer areas. that's why I think Project Fear and the unrelenting focus on the markets was so wrong. a lot of the people who voted Out live in communities that actually gained as a result of EU membership - the money that was sent to Brussels was divvied up and some of it went to Poland and Portugal and Romania, but some of it came back home again, to Sunderland and Suffolk. I'm waiting to see how much of the savings are now diverted to the NHS as opposed to tax cuts prior to the next election. Angela Merkel welcoming in refugees was an example of a brave act in support of that utopian dream. The sad thing is that people felt that a. Merkel was wrong and b. that there was less to go around for themselves as a result and please don't get me started on Corbyn and the Labour party...

I couldn't say it better than Bob - Foxy, I think he's right on this again Louisa, I hear what you're saying, and as you know, I've been rather appalled at all the talking-down to that you've been receiving in recent days. I'm really interested to hear you describe the vote as an 'act of self-harm' by people who feel that they don't have a stake in anything, and I can see how that can be - but I could never agree that it was the right result - just the sight of Farage and his slimy opportunistic hanger-on is enough to make one heave

what news to wake up to. Gutted.

not sure whether they're made to tolerate sharpening any more - i got a pair of Wilkinson's shears sharpened at one of the local garden centres (one of those now gone to make way for developers!) and they just snapped soon after. if you're suggesting that "proper British Sheffield made shears" are exempt from planned obsolescence, i very much doubt it!

you can opt out of that by un-ticking the relevant box on your profile

i notice that most of the new developments around ED have paved-over gardens or are built on every available inch of space - the resulting run-off must be giving the flood defences a run for their money but also overloading the drains. i find it incredible that the council seems to be putting this kind of thing through planning without demur.

no - you were fine to use pretty much anything that makes a mark! see http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-ballot-papers-pencils-conspiracy-fears-social-media-voters "The Electoral Commission has reminded voters that ballot papers marked in pencil or pen are equally valid, in response to concerns expressed on social media that votes not written in ink could be rubbed out and altered." i wonder what it is about this referendum that has brought out the loonies and the nutters in force!

"the sky is falling" said Chicken Little, and the markets, and their friends in the EDF ran around like headless chickens

eh? this is all that the BBC has to say Heavily armed police have surrounded a cinema complex in western Germany amid reports that a gunman has barricaded himself inside. German media reports suggest a man fired at least one shot at the Kinopolis complex in Viernheim, near Frankfurt. At least 20 people are said have been injured, many reportedly as the result of a release of tear gas. It is unclear if the man is alone or if he has taken hostages.

thanks for giving this thread back its thoroughly British soul back, Bob, for a while I was afraid it had been hijacked! not yet voted, but will go forth and do my duty, accompanied by child (because she needs to know what fun universal suffrage is) and dog (because dogs outside polling stations exude a peculiarly British kind of charm) and then the waiting begins...

what Bob said i scan the tedious disquisitions on the other thread and have a bit of a chuckle - the more elections I live through, the more I'm convinced of how little effect reasoned arguments have on how people end up voting. Sue, the only thing that might tempt me to vote Leave is if I were promised that we'd drop out of Eurovision as a result! not going to happen, so may as well stay!

> The dog is NOT aggressive but playful. > If you are local please keep your eyes open for > the poor dog and get him safe if you can. i would second the plea, but disagree about your assessment of this dog. if it is attacking and killing foxes, it is also likely to be a danger to other smaller creatures such as cats and small children. it needs to be found and controlled.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35369688

in

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I was under the impression that Bill Clinton is > remembered much more fondly over there than Tony > Blair is over here... my impression too - but that's not saying a lot, they seem to have a better tolerance for sleaze over there I see that a poll of fave un-dead ex presidents over there had Bill neck and neck with Bush Senior

I was interested to hear that liberally inclined voters in the US view the Clintons much in the same way that liberally inclined voters in the UK view the Blairs - suggesting that voting for Hillary is analogous to voting for Cherie! really difficult for anyone who would otherwise welcome a woman running for President

very sorry to see his obit - a class act (and thanks from us too to the Goose for bringing him to ED)

remains an ill-judged intervention, steveo

not2late Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've often wondered that myself. I also feel that > as a centrepiece, this 'fountain' -- really just a > jet of water -- rather lets the Sexby Garden down. > I wonder if we could crowdfund for a new > ornamental fountain. it's the original design, to match the simple columns flanking the paths and the pergola is this the sort of thing you had in mind? http://www.travelroma.com/img/gallery/hotels-in-rome/trevi-fountain-rome-hotels-04.jpg - or maybe even this one :0) http://blog.caesars.com/las-vegas//wp-content/uploads/2012/04/forum_shops_trevi_rest.jpg

yesterday - seen from 8:30am bus on Denmark Hill: cat chasing fox, fox running for dear life!

no problem with garden bridges in general, just this one. there is a much more pressing need for more river crossings in unglamorous East London, and the procurement process for this one stinks. as for pedestrian-only bridges, we've already pretty well served on that stretch of the Thames.

the garden bridge is being compared to the NY High Line - but the Peckham Coal Line would be a closer analogy, and that's not getting any Mayoral money. Boris may have got rid of bendy buses, but he replaced them with those ugly and pokey (have you ever gone upstairs on them?) fake Routemasters, also designed by the ubiquitous and over-rated Heatherwick I will chiefly remember him as the man who caused my daily commute to work to double in length from one hour to two

what DF said and i'm also concerned about the dachshund - how can it keep up with a guy on a bike?