scor46

Even without the conspiracy theory. it's still happening!!

With 10,000 pubs set to close this year, that?s up to 25% of the pubco estate, then please tell me why the CEO of the second biggest pubco has been aggressively buying up shares in his own company? Now humour me for a moment, here?s a conspiracy theory for you; The pubcos (FTSE100) are geared up so highly that they have backed themselves into a corner. With 10,000 pubs set to close this year, lots of them in affluent areas, what better way to realise the true worth than to sell them off as residential properties. In fact why not use your own valuers and transfer them to your own managed residential property arm? 12 months ago Enterprise Inns applied to the Government for a REIT status (Real Estate Investment Trust). Of course the Government would need to be party to all of this so why not spread lots of propaganda about binge drinking (out of 57,00 pub licenses there are only 22 pubs with 24 hour licenses) Increase tax on alcohol, Introduce an illegal smoking ban and then when these boarded up pubs become an eyesore, relax local planning restrictions and turn them into residential. Win, win, win for the pubcos!! But what about the 10,000 publicans who have been destroyed and lost everything? Answers on the back of a postcard??

Great post Macroban, Share price across the whole pub sector have dropped on average by 50% in the last 12 months, due in the main to the smoking ban but also lack of confidence from the city bods. Wetherspoon?s turnover is down 14%, Laurel Pubs in administration, Massive Pubs in admin and Regent Inns just about to go that way as well. Obviously these companies aren?t pubcos (tied pubs) but it shows the lack of confidence from the financial powers. All that said, the pubcos are both powerful and arrogant and they will bounce back. The pubcos have 31,000 freehold properties across the UK so the City is not going to let the economy become unstable by allowing these property cartels to topple.

lets hope that Boss man wines are involved?? .....only joking, but imagine that?

The gloves are off?. Interesting article in this morning?s Daily Mail, page 34/35 Paul Kingsnorth is probably the first journalist to speak out against the pubcos in his article - The murder of the English pub. Those who have walked before him have always moderated their arguments through fear of libel action from the pubcos. Bob Roberts wrote a similar article in Fridays Mirror but he skirted around the real issues. He quoted Mark Hastings from The BBPA. The BBPA have their routes deeply ingrained with the pubcos and are not representative of the ?real? pub industry. Fine job Mr Kingsnorth, the first of many articles and editorials you will see this summer. As I said at the start of this post, the gloves are off?. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Pubcos/

arrangement

hanger

lice

with enuff rope Katy could tie up the whole of team Smorky.......

criterion

Im too sexy - Right said Fred

double

I have already cast my vote but I haven?t signed the petition, I?m abstaining until I get more information. Someone go and knock on the BC door and ask them to give us some info to go on. Team Snorky!! Jeezzzz!!

Snorky you definitely are Columbo...

Katy I believe you....

Pint of Erdinger wheat Beer.....

Im definitely voting for Boris Johnson now?.

Wow! Snorky.. Would hate to meet you in a dark alley. You should run for office - Mayors job is coming up soon....

Thanks Keef Make sure you tell the CPT owner to sign the petition if you get a chance.

You could write a comedy script just using the posts from this thread!! Katy - I will sign the petition but I would like the situation clarifed first. Probably going to have a wander down there tonight to see what all the fuss is about. Any excuse eh!!

Sorry guys!! 4p at cost, 20-25p at selling price

Sorry Peckhamgatecrasher, I've just had my mind on other issues lately. Lets get March out of the way (bad weather and all) and we will do another book swap next month..

Just following on from my earlier post, I just want to share with you a couple of posts that were made today on the Morning Advertiser's website: 10 March 2008 My name is Nigel Rose a father of three young children at The New Cross Keys in Pontefract I took over this pub on the 14th Dec 2006, I at the time had 3 properties to rent a good job thinking I could eventually leave work and be a full time landlord but that was not to be with all the stress I have lost my job and I have had to sell two of my properties. This has not helped I am up to my eyeballs in debt with a debt management agency trying to help me. I cant sleep at night I have through out being a licensee have wanted to take my own life if it wasn't for my 3 children I dont think id have made it to 2008. Its not our fault its the brewery charging to much rent. There are several pubs in Pontefract owned by this brewery, Turks Head, the Woodman, Antix and one just down the road in Featherstone the Jubilee Hotel all shut down to name but a few because of the high rent. While im typing this in I feel sick to the core that my families future as been turned upside down . We need the help of the government theres no where else to turn theres that many wolves at my door its not fair. Please give me a chance to turn this business around its all we've got. Nigel Rose 10 March 2008 I feel exactly the same ,just transfered my post office pension for lump sum to pay off pubco but slightly short so wont give me a weeks credit till payed off ,my rents just increased ,selling my house to try and pay other debts,embarrissingly keep breaking down in tears when im on my own,feel suicidal everyday ,but the thought of leaving my family to sort the mess out keeps me going. Stodgy89 You can see these posts here: http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/thread/2549/28579/The-new-cross-key-in-pontefract.aspx?#Posting28579 If you feel that you want to do something about this then sign here: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Pubcos/

Good question Jeremy and to answer it you have to know a little bit about the history of the pub so here goes: Since 1989 the pubcos have been aggressively purchasing freehold pubs, in 2001 they owned 30,800 of the 57,000 pubs in the Country. The Monopolies and Mergers Commission's (MMC's) reported in 1989, "The Supply of Beer" gave birth, pub companies barely existed in the UK, yet by 2004 just two pubcos, Enterprise Inns and Punch Taverns, owned more than 25% of all the pubs in the land. According to the BBPA Statistics for 2007 there are 23,900 tied pubs with Pubcos, 6,900 with brewers, which mean there are 30,800 tied lease/tenancies. There is a further 9,000 pubs are the managed houses of Pubcos and brewers. Although there are 90,000 full on licences it has been estimated that 65,000 are traditional pubs/clubs the remaining being cafes, restaurants hotels and some clubs. Some of those independent pubs may also have a form of tie arising from a free trade loan. In short the pubcos bought every pub they could and their ?tied? estate became the cornerstone of the pub industry, as we know it. They call it the pubco ?model?. The pubs they didn?t buy were not making profits or the turnover was so poor they could not fit them into their model. Today, there are still hundreds & hundreds of free of tie pubs up for sale, the pubcos are not interested because they don?t fit into their model. The Licensing Act in 2003 was introduced to regulate the sale of alcohol, The legislation basically put a stop to new licenses being given out by the local councils because the controlling measures were placed upon their own heads. Incidentally, this also made the pubcos model stronger. So there you have it, the pubs that are left generally are not worth having, and it has became difficult because of legislation, to open your own free house. Predictions for this year alone: 5,000 pubs to close permanently, 10000 tenant pubs to change hands in the next 12 months. How many more will close permanently is still open to debate. Dont forget to sign this: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Pubcos

Chavwivalawdegree, Thanks very much for your comments, I will be in touch with you