sillywoman

Dear Spring baby ladies, This coming Friday morning some of us are getting together to discuss setting up an East Dulwich 'Positive Birth' group. We are meeting at 10am at a house in ED for coffee, biscuits and chat. If you are interested please feel free to come along we'd love to meet you. There will be some toys for toddlers to play with (though to a huge amount), and of course babies and children are welcome. PM me for the address if you'd like to come. Please see this thread in the family room if you'd like to know more: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1223855 Sorry to gate crash. SWx

So it seems that Friday morning is the most popular time. Can we say 10am(ish), at my house (Please PM for address) for coffee, biscuits and generally positive discussion? It would be great to have as many interested people as possible. Not least because I feel quite nervous this :D I am imagining that this first meet-up will to establish some group ground rules and set an agenda for what people want, and how we'd like to move forward with the group. To reiterate. This is a positive birth group - to focus on being positive about whatever kind of birth you have/chose. I like Saffron's word - 'empowered'. Saff - please come, you have such clear thinking on this kind of thing, it would be great to have you with us from the get-go of this group. Have PM'd those of you who Pm'd me, and am looking forward to seeing you on Friday. SWx

Well I was thinking the 6th, daytime jac2blade, but I could do the evening if that was more popular? Convex I haven't had any PM's oddly - I wonder why that is? Kes, I wish you COULD come, yours is exactly the sort of story that makes me think we need a much more positive approach to ALL types of birth. Are you sure we can't tempt you - I have wi-ine? :D stheb - can you make Friday? Please can anyone interested in coming to a 'positive birth' meet-up on Friday 6th send me a PM? Then I can gauge daytime or evening, make a decision & send my address to those wanting to come - or we could always go for an external venue, Cafe or pub, I suppose?

Yes, London Ambulance service. An excellent course and if you provide the space they'll do it for free. They do one for babies and one for older children too, just get a few mates together and you're sorted. A brilliant service.

The only other day I could do next week is Friday? Sadly I haven't got any evenings free though. Am keen to 'throw ideas round' (like that image S-the-b :D ), but whilst there IS no time like the present, equally there's no rush. We have time to find a time & date that suits all interested parties . . . So how would next Friday (6th) fit?

Oh gosh, umm expectations - I really haven't thought much beyond "that sounds good, I wonder if it might be useful round here?". So, right, brain in gear... well my take on it would be an informal drop in group, say once a month at a regular time where women who were interested (pregnant or not) could meet to discuss how best to create the circumstance that will enable them to have the best chance of a positive experience of childbirth - and eat biscuits (very important). Hopefully a sense of empowerment & information would follow? I don't see it as an antenatal education class at all so (though I'm sure there will inevitably be some crossover), more a democratically run support group with an agenda set by those who are attending. The focus would be 'positive approaches to labour & birth' and that would need to encompass all types of birth from whale-music water births to elective caesareans, as it's all birth isn't it? Kes, I think I see what you're saying, but I have a suspicion that you may be confusing 'positive childbirth' with 'natural childbirth'. I don't see it as the same thing at all, while positive childbirth may encompass natural childbirth within it's remit it will only be as a small part of the broader childbirth picture. I would think positive birth is partly about aiming to remain informed, empowered & respected by your caregivers whatever scenario you find yourself in and whoever they are? I dunno though - come along & join the chat, add to the discussion, if you're free? I am more than happy to collaborate with others on this. londonhypnobirthing & dulwichpsychology I'll PM you. Meantime maybe we should set the ball rolling with an initial meet up to gauge support. How would the first Tuesday of every month work for people? Say 7-9pmish? I am happy to host at my house - I can fit up to 15 people in my front room at a squeeze. Or we can do it elsewhere if someone's got a bigger/better/nicer space to offer (my loo is clean & works but the decor is sadly lacking)? If this all sounds good then maybe we should just suck it & see? However I do have a fly in my ointment - I can't do this coming Tuesday (first one in Dec), so either we could start the ball rolling the following one (Dec 10th) or wait until Jan if that doesn't suit? Am happy to do either depending on availability of those who have expressed an interest - let me know? With regard to the postnatal support group: this is an area I've long had an interest in and I'm delighted to hear that someone for whom it's an area of expertise is taking the initiative to get something up and running. Nice one dulwichpsychology. I strongly agree with you Saffron regarding the need & am hopeful that dulwichpsychology's sessions will take off.

Here: http://www.positivebirthmovement.org/ as described by Milli Hill here;http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-life/news/a533313/why-ante-natal-classes-are-out-of-step-with-the-births-women-want-now.html Do you think a discussion/support group like this would work in ED? I see that there's one in Crystal Palace & one in Herne-Hill, but we are already well served in Ed with this lovely forum/seasonal baby groups and all - do you think it might be popular? I'd love to host/support/whatever something like this once a month. Would anyone be interested do you think?

Hollie this is a lovely idea - I'v signed up, but am just giving your thread a boost as it would be nice to keep it 'up there' for a while. SW x

or a handy teenager working her way through 6th form?

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > SW lacking validity doesn't mean it's definitely > wrong, it just means it's yet to be validated. > Which surely it is? Yes Otta, that's what I meant - maybe I'm not saying it well though? Reeko, yes - we do seem to be boiling the debate down to semantics. We will have to agree to disagree though, as whilst I do see your point of view I cannot help but feel that to hedge myself in with so may caveats before I would consider whether something might be useful to me might severely restrict my choices and lead me to miss a lot of useful stuff that the world has to offer? But I completely support your right to defend your need for validity - just your way isn't my way & vice versa. :)

Why? Do you want to set one up yourself?

reeko Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Great post london mix. > > > There are no randomised controlled studies looking > at the effects (benefits or harms) of consumption > of placenta post birth. Any of the proposed > 'benefits' are at best anecdotal and at worst > misleading. Silly woman - the lack of this > evidence is precisely why this practice lacks > validity. It may be effective, but there is no > proof, therefore any claims of benefit cannot be > valid when trying to promote this practice or, > more importantly, sell the services associated > with it. > > With respect I will have to disagree reeko: that there are no RCT's that look at the effects of eating placenta for postnatal women just means that there are no trials - only that. It doesn't mean the claim of benefit lacks validity, just that it may be valid or it may not - we don't yet know. To say the claim lacks validity suggests you have proof to the contrary. If you do please publish it, the medical/midwifery world awaits your work. Meantime, I'll keep an open mind on it all Thanks.

FOr the sheer joy of it Alan Medic, just for the joy.

buggie Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sorry Saffron but don't think any of those > analogies quite match up to something which is for > 9mths an internal organ! And yet most people will happily chow down on another mammals internal organs - regardless of how many months they've been in there - when presented in a fashion considered palatable (i.e. cooked & on a plate), and not consider it gross in any way. I do wonder what we think makes us so special? I know each person draws their own line, mine just seems to get broader and broader the more I think about & question stuff. Don't know if I'd eat placenta or not, but if I was a sufferer of, or at risk of PND in any form, or lived in a place where I had little or no access to iron replacements I know I'd seriously consider it.

Such a useful thread I thought I'd revive it for the new winter Mums/babies :D

I get that Kes, and mostly agree. But whilst I agree with the theory I think the reality for most people doing placenta encapsulation is that they don't make a great deal of money, are usually juggling this job with another, and/or children and don't have the resources to fund to organise proper testing into it's efficacy. That's not to say that I don't think it should happen, I do, just that I can see why it hasn't happened yet. Delayed cord clamping is a prime example of this (dave_carnell might this meet your request for an example?). For years this was something of an underground 'alternative' practice, as it became more widespread and the claims of benefits to the baby became something that could no longer be ignored, finally research was done, and on the back of it, In 2011 the RCOG announced that their recommendation was for all women who had straightforward physiological births to be offered DCC. It's taking a while to filter through the system, but would have been unthinkable in the medicalised NHS maternity service of 20-30 years ago. The use of water in labour and birth is the same. @dave_carnell: I was thinking specifically of all the myriad of techniques and tricks that traditional birth attendants use in environments where western medicine isn't available. These techniques (herbalism, accupressure, acupuncture, aromatherapy, massage, positioning, rebozo use) often get lost as the western medical model for healthcare moves in, sometimes we throw the baby out with the bathwater though (if you'll excuse the pun). I like to think I carry a healthy dose of scepticism with me, but I'm also unwilling to dismiss something solely because it hasn't yet matched our 21st century criteria of 'proof' - who's to say what will be proved or disproved in the future? As Saffron says "a healthy heaping of scepticism is not the same thing as a closed mind".

Yes Kes, an RCT would work well if you could find a big enough cohort to make it valid, but it's important to keep in mind that just because something hasn't been officially tested, and published in a peer review journal doesn't mean that it lacks validity. There's more out there than our narrow technocratic medical model currently encompasses. It's good to keep on open mind - even on stuff that might initially make us think "Eeeewww" :) SW x

Homily indeed. Straws sums up my feelings nicely. Thanks S.

Trossachs always comes up trumps ;)

So where is this 'rambling' discussion about Jojo maman bebe then? Can someone link to it please? Curiosity has been piqued.

Rosendale? Though you're a cert for DVIS in Pickwick and it's so lovely I can't see why you'd go anywhere else :D

Us this time (again). Last night, about 9.15pm. Cut through/jemmied off the lock on our side gate, lifted two kids bikes into neighbours side return, & made off with Mr S's bike (not a very exciting or glamorous, or even expensive one. Was 2nd hand when we got it), leaving the newer & more valuable kids bikes oddly. I suspect more to it than bike theft. My suspicion is they were casing us for means of entry down the side return & were scared off by My Mum moving round the house & putting on lights as she went. But who knows? WHat can I say, other than to repeat the advice for vigilance and careful security as much as possible. B@$!@*ds.

:( Oh no. She's surely missing a trick in this area?!

Does the 'Fitting Room' still exist in Forest Hill? The lady who ran it specialised in pregnancy/maternity fitting for the ...ahem... more endowed among us. I think someone told me she was Rigby & Peller trained too. I always heard very good things from the women I knew who went the there for their Bra's, it would be a shame if it no longer exists.

Tooting ain't in the hood tho . . . whassup in ED? (or something like that anyway).