sillywoman

new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > It's clear that private education is better for > any number of reasons BUT is it ?4000 plus a term > better? Errrrr nope. Massive assumption alert. You may feel it's better. I most definitely do not. Please be careful with your generalisms nm. Thanks, particularly pedantic SW

Ahhh, now I see I thought OP was asking for ideas for a present for her Mum/ Mum-in-law! Cultural differences - oops.:-$

Yes, I think you're right Moos. For me it was just the knowledge that I hadn't progressed at all in 4 hours, and I knew I couldn't do another 4 like the ones that had just gone so it was off-to-Kings-and-call-me-wussy for an epidural for me. The G&A wasn't helping at that stage either. Actually, if anyone dares to call me a wuss then I may just have to poke their eyes out. :))

I was at the conference too - wish I'd known you were there!

it's unhelpful because it's unsubstantiated and unprovable. For every midwife friend of yours who doesn't like the NCT, I could produce one who does, but where's the benefit to the OP in that? It's one thing to post your own experience - that's helpful - but to post the views of a friend who thinks that some women she's cared for in a professional capacity have experienced x, y or z attitude from the NCT is entirely unhelpful. She doesn't know for sure, can't back it up with any proof - it's just her interpretation of how she thinks they feel. As a basis for any decision making it couldn't be more vague. It's interesting to note that she's a C&W midwife. They're know as one of the most obstetrically inclined NHS hospitals in London with a horribly unnecessarily high Caesarean rate, without doubt this will impact on her view of the work the NCT does. I'm not taking it as a comment about my classes Keef - I know that it's not. But,it is a comment on the charity I work for & so does impact on me. As you say, you haven't done the classes and yet you do seem to always pop up on these threads with a negative comment or opinion about the work we do. I aim to balance this and feel I should defend myself & my colleagues where I can. Misinformation is never a good thing.

new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Moos, yes exactly; where IS their fighting spirit? > ;-) It's here and roused!!! SW

No, motherhood carries enough guilt with it, guilt for having an epidural is entirely pointless and not at all useful to a new Mum - each woman's labour is individual to her. No one else can decide how much pain relief she needs and of what type as no-one else is experiencing what she's feeling. No-one should ever judge anyone on choices made during labour - ever. However I do think the analogy with a footballer having his leg broken isn't the most appropriate comparison to the pain during labour which generally comes and goes, and for most women isn't like the experience of 'broken limb' pain at all. Definitely a dodgy comparison. Hi Kerry, sorry to highjack your thread there. I'm one of the NCT teachers in ED (the one mentioned earlier in the thread). I'm not sure you're booked on my course though as my September ones are already full & I take 6 couples at a time - it may be that you're booked on under a different name? However if you want to ask any questions about the classes that we run, or speak to any women who have already done them to get a sense of whether of it would be worth it for you then I can help. It's probably best if you PM me for more information if you feel it would be helpful to you. The idea of booking a private midwife or doula for information is an interesting one, but it's very different to what I do & from what you'd get out of your NCT classes. Keef - that's a really unhelpful comment so I am going to bite your head off. You didn't seriously think I'd let that one pass did you? The old "a friend in the know said this" line is frankly a cheap shot & not worthy of you. Now, I don't know where your midwife friend works or how she came by her view so I'm struggling to know how best to defend myself or my profession adequately. However, defend myself & the charity I work for I must, so to tackle the accusation; I & most other NCT teachers I know locally work really, really hard to give a realistic overview of labour and birth, & not paint a rose tinted picture of the 'perfect' birth. it's a common misconception among some obstetric midwives that the rose tinted thing is what we do. I would refute that strongly and can only say that if any of the Mums or Dads who have been through my classes & feel that I gave them a misleading picture of the 'perfect' birth would you please please post on this forum to say so? One of my main aims is to give women & their birth partners realistic expectations of what to expect physiologically, emotionally & systematically. To prepare them as far as possible for the rollercoaster ride that labour & birth can be, the decisions that they may encounter along the 'ride' & how to get the best out of the system available to them. As for the NCT making anyone feel guilty for having an epidural. Well, the NCT is an organisation made up of people - like any big organisation there are a wide range of views encompassed in it - I can only comment on my personal experience of it, having had 3 epidurals in labour myself, I've never, ever been made to feel an ounce of guilt for my choices and I really hope that I reflect the lack of judgement I've experienced in my work for the NCT charity? Inducing guilt or any sense of failure in new mothers is about as far from the aims of the NCT as it's possible to get.

They've clearly been in the Sainbury's DKH at the same time as me . . .

Another vote for Moltex - but we never had the need to change to anything else they did us all the way through - I even composted some of them. I think sometimes it's to do with the shape of the child v shape of the nappy. Some nappy designs suit slimmer babies, some suit tubby ones better. Otherwise go & see Molly & get some expert advice on some cotton ones - you might be suprised.

Ratcliffe - are you only interested in Catholic schools?

Yes, it's been on you tube (though a slightly different version - before cropping I guess?) for a little while & was the subject of a mumsnet thread. I watched it a few times about a week ago or longer and now I have the song constantly going round in my head. Yes it made me quite teary too Molly. I cry so easily since having kids - it's quite annoying sometimes. Luuuuurverly ad' though.

Oldest 14, youngest 6. Went through the years of 'alert' sleeping, but now - and for the past 3 years - sleep like the proverbial log, or deeper if it's possible. It's great - think I'm making up for the 'lost years'. You too will sleep again SB - don't despair. :)

misticnitmeg or misticnutter? Your comments are somewhat belligerent and your responses inappropriately aggressive. It's unnecessary on this thread, and is preventing you from being taken seriously. You might consider moderating your tone if you want your views to carry any weight.

buggie Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is it Guthrie wing you're thinking of?? That's the > private/international patients ward - don't know > if they'd take maternity cases as it's staffed by > nurses rather than midwives. Yes, that's the one buggie - I think they do have a maternity unit there. I'm pretty sure one of my Mums used it last year. Not sure enough to stake my life mind you! However I do know that you can't have your baby in the NHS unit then pay for a private room postnatally at Kings.

I think Kings does have a private wing for births, but it's completely separate from the NHS maternity unit. You have to be booked there from the start of your maternity care - all or nothing AFAIK. It has a name, but can't remember what it is.

If there's 6 of you or more & you can provide a venue, the London Ambulance service, 0207 463 3120 will do an infant first aid session for you for free. If you don't have a venue they charge ?5 a head to cover costs.

SBryan Wrote: > And, lastly, 15=20% of women have an assisted > delivery, so there are lots of people out there in > the same boat, you're not alone (and 30% have a > caesarean, the antenatal classes paint a very rosy > picture of childbirth indeed!). Ahem!!!! Careful please SBryan! Actually I do my best to paint as accurate picture as I can, with stats (Caesareans not yet 30% in any of our local hospitals thank goodness), and anything else I can think of to try and get across the reality of childbirth without sending My Mums & Dads screaming in horror from the room. I try to avoid 'rosy'& stick to facts, figures and evidence as far as possible.

me.

poor you born&brED, you should definitely speak to your GP about the continuing discomfort as it may need checking out to make sure all is healing as it should. Warning having just re read before I posted - the rest of this post may not be for the faint hearted or anyone who doesn't want to know about tearing or episiotomies in any detail. Just to clarify re the episiotomy or tear debate. Like all things to do with childbirth there's really not much in the way of 'one solution fits all'. To the best of my knowledge the current situation is as follows; with a ventouse delivery it is possible to request no episiotomy, with a forceps delivery an episiotomy is always done. Contrary to popular opinion an episiotomy isn't usually done to fit the forceps in, or get a big baby out, or make the entrance to the vagina bigger in any way. It's done to direct any severe tearing away from the anus and toward the inner thigh. It's done if it looks like the Mum may be going to tear very badly to help avoid or prevent 'poo' problems later. Hence why some of you were given it as standard and others not. Yes, if the choice is between a 1st or 2nd degree tear (flesh, or flesh & muscle tissue) or an episiotomy then most experienced midwives would suggest it's better to tear as the delicate perinneal skin heals itself very effectively along its natural fibre lines - so reducing the amount of scar tissue. But if a midwife is recommending an episiotomy then I wouldn't hesitate to go with it. She/he can see what you can't, & it may be that she(he)'s seeing that the baby is coming quickly (as with ventouse or forceps deliveries) so the perinneum doesn't have to time to soften & stretch, meaning you're running the risk of a 3rd or 4th degree tear up to or into the anus. Ooouch. This is one of those situations where I would usually caution my Mums to take the advice offered by the medical professionals. But like everything in life - that's a personal decision & you have to do what you feel is right for you, EDMummy being a classic example of successfully making an 'informed decision'. Sorry - boring lecture over :-$. I just can't help it. I find all this stuff so interesting. There must be something wrong with me . . . .

17 ::o 23 ::o But who did the parenting? Surely two people couldn't possibly parent that many children effectively by themselves? Surely a load of the burden would fall onto the older kids? I really wouldn't want to do that to my kids. Also how do you remember all their names ( I have trouble with 4!) and make them feel like they're special individuals who are precious & important to you? Gosh so many, many issues without even touching on the health issues for the Mum. Oooohh no,no,no - definitely not for me -money or no money. Brrrrrrr.

no 1 = Tinkerbelle, or Tink, plus various shortened versions of her given name. no 2 = Bam-bam, Bammer, plus as above. No 3 = Coo, coo-coo (he hates that), kady-coo. No 4 = Squish, Mr i(pronounced as in i-gloo), womble. These names all just kind of appeared and seemed to fit so we stick with them. Strange really?

Agree with gwod totally about first child being hardest.

Mmmmm, age is definitely an issue. There's no way I'd want to do new baby stuff now in my early forties & with other kids to care for. Just too knackered. There's also the 'time for each' issue as they get bigger. Whilst money would help with that I'm sure, without it I just don't think it fair to spread my self any thinner than I do among the four I've got. Re; the restrictions of parenthood. I felt the same, but I have to say it has got a lot more fun as they've got older, & I'm loving having teenagers, grumpiness, hormones, smelly feet & all (I'm so going to regret saying that aren't I? The gods will come & bite me on the bum now you'll see). They're so funny and witty, and interesting (and beautiful of course ;-)). For me parenthood does seem to get better as the years roll by.

Polly D Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And though space and money very > useful, I would need more sleep and energy to have > any more than that. To my mind limitless money would = more sleep & energy! :))

5 or 6. If . . . .