Saffron

Theasidonio, it's brilliant that you spoke to everyone in person. I'm sure your wedding day will be special. I suspect that really great weddings are those where everyone's expectations have been clearly communicated by the bride and groom directly. I'm struck by how weird (to me) it seems that the OP's MiL was contacted by the groom's mum, re the OP's children at the wedding. I know large weddings can be complicated, but shouldn't the bride and groom speak to guests about this personally to avoid confusion? And, if they've said it's ok to have children there, then why aren't there any accommodations being offered? That sounds to me like they don't actually want children there. But is it the bride and groom that don't want children, or is it the groom's mother? Very confusing.

What type of reaction are you worried about? The previously reported link between MMR and autism has be soundly refuted. Sometimes children have allergic reactions to the MMR preparation. This is very rare, and would most likely manifest as an immediate reaction. It's not uncommon to have a low fever after an immunisation. You can give baby ibuprofen and/or paracetamol before* and after the jab, according to the dose and time interval on the box. Very rarely, idiosyncratic reactions can occur to any drug. If you see any clearly abnormal symptoms in your child, phone the NHS direct 0845 4647. Try not to worry. xx (Edited to say) *Oops, scratch that, and see below! It's now recommended to give paracetamol/ibuprofen only therapeutically, not prophylactically.

I can imagine that some people feel the same way towards their children as they do towards their partners, regarding accepting invites w/o them. If I don't go to a wedding, I'm inclined to send a smaller gift or sometimes just cash in an envelope. As the OP has already spent a great deal (?1k, did I read that right?!), I'm curious to know what's considered appropriate for a gift, if they can't attend? Subject line says it all: Dilemma!

theasidonio Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agree with regards to exceptions. We will be > having my fiance's 14 year old daughter as the > only exception to the no-children rule. None of > our friends or family are currently pregnant, but > if there is anyone breastfeeding their child, I > would of course, make an exception for them too. I > don't know much about breast feeding, Saffron. I > was just thinking, if it were me, I'd want some > privacy, I can appreciate that not everyone feels > the same, but I haven't made this rule. > I feel like you are singling me out when I'm not > the only one who has offered the opposite point of > view. > > Hardly the maid of honour's job to remove a > toddler she doesn't know from the dance floor. > Should of been his mother, keeping a better eye on > him! Yes, it should have been the parent. When that doesn't happen, then the M of H, or someone else from the bridal party needs to lend a hand surely? What, does everyone just stand around gaping? And, no, I'm not singling you out, theasidonio. Though others posted with similar expressions, you have posted with your own specific opinion on it, and I have replied specifically to that. That's the EDF, for ya! ;-) I think this is a great thread not despite the different opinions, but because of them. I think there is much to learn and consider on both sides of the issue. For example, how does one handle the issue of invites/gifts? If a bride and groom invite friends with small children, knowing that they likely can't/won't come, is a gift still de rigueur if they don't attend? Or does one just not invite them? It's not all as simple as it seems! xx

theasidonio Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > fapl Wrote: > (and if he doesn't behave we take him > > outside so as to minimise bother to other > > people). > > > > > If only all parents were like you fapl. Couldn't > count the amount of weddings and other functions > that I've been to where some of the parents let > their kids run riot in the church and reception. > The last wedding I went to, one mum let her 4 year > old slide up and down the dancefloor when the > bride and groom were having their first dance. That is the role of the Maid of Honour to clear up issues like this at a wedding. M of H should have whisked the little devil off the dance floor to some more appropriate location, or have a stern word with his parents!!

theasidonio Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ruth_Baldock Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Cuppatea, I can really empathise with > > "breastfeeding Mums are not acceptable to most > > people..." > > > > I am attending a wedding which my children have > > been invited to and have been TOLD, not asked, > > that there will be a seperate room for me to > nurse > > my daughter in. The reason? "THAT will make my > > guests uncomfortable". > > > > Well. Great. > > > doesn't having a separate room mean you'll have > privacy? I'm just asking! Well, do you like to eat your dinner in a separate room from everyone else? Why should Baby be made to eat her "dinner" in a separate room? And would a bottle/formula fed baby be acceptable, but b/fing is not ok? What complete nonsense.

theasidonio Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am having a child free wedding and my fiance and > I are paying for it ourselves. we simply cannot > swallow the cost of all the children's meals (we > are only getting a discount of ?8 per child under > 12). (anyone who says it doesn't cost clearly > hasn't had to plan a wedding recentley). We could > invite less people so all the parent's could bring > their kids but I'd rather have my grown-up friends > there. Your friends' children aren't also your friends? And how does one draw the line between child and adult? Would a friend's 22 year old son be invited, but not her 10 year old son? My then fiance and I also paid for our wedding ourselves. I do know the costs, as this was only 2 year ago. Because we feel that our friends' children are as important to us as our adult friends, we chose to have a service and reception which could accommodate all ages. This meant we couldn't afford our "dream" wedding, and we accepted that. At some point in the future, when we can afford a more lavish ceremony and reception, we plan to renew our vows. We'll definitely still invite our friends and their children. A wedding is something many people only do once, but you can renew your vows with a service and ceremony any time. > We've offended one parent out of about 18. That you know of. Despite my personal feelings, I can understand why some people prefer an adults-only wedding. That may mean that some guests you'd like to be there can't come b/c of their commitments to their children. One hopes, the bride and groom do understand that if the children are still small, they are the parents' priority, not the wedding. If exceptions need to be made, they should be done so with grace and tact, no? Ultimately it's down to the host and hostess to make guests feel welcome and wanted. One hopes guests show their appreciation for this... they are your friends, aren't they?

If you are breastfeeding, and you have to be away for 24hrs in which you can't b/feed your baby, are you certain that you're going to be able to pump enough volume frequently? Otherwise, you could be in for a nasty case of blocked ducts and possibly mastitis! Yes, that's worst case scenario, but it's something you need to consider. If you are accustomed to pumping frequently, and you're confident that you can pump enough to make yourself comfortable, then don't worry about it. If you pump infrequently, you may find that pumping away from home and your comfortable surroundings makes getting a proper let down reflex nearly impossible. I totally agree with Ruth's point. If a child is under one year old and still nursing, then the mother and child are unit. Where the mother goes, the baby goes. A baby doesn't need an extra seat or extra plate, so there's no expense to the hostess. Where is the wedding taking place? Many churches now have "cry rooms" or similar nursery areas. Sit near the back and preferably at the end of a row. That way you and Baby can nip out quickly to the nursery if it looks like Baby is going to make a fuss. Don't let yourself get manipulated (though well-intentioned I'm sure) into something about which you're not really certain. You've said yourself, amydown, that you're not really ready to leave Baby overnight, and that problems with b/fing would be upsetting. Those things are important to you and will stay with you long after your friend's wedding. Hope it all works out whatever you decide. xx

Fi from West Dulwich Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I did wonder afterwards whether my flippant, typed > in haste post would be misconstrued - I didn't > mean the mothers of those who sleep are all > inherently smug. I was rather hoping that was the case. Sometimes dark humour gets a little lost in translation. Obviously not all parents of those who sleep well are inherently smug about it. xx

sunbob Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for the reminder about that funny thread. > Our 5 month old started going in his own cot last > Monday, after cosleeping since 10 wks. Other half > is on leave for 2 wks so we are sharing duties. We > are taking it as it comes and I think he's getting > the idea of the. Cot as his bed, although he > doesn't particularly like it. Anyway, I'm at that > almost no sleep for the last week stage, bone > tired, tearful and occasionally manic. One such > very hysterically funny occasion was this lunch > time. Having forgotten the nappy bag, left very > late for our b holiday activity (as I didn't have > the usual energy to chivvy everyone out) and with > much loving help to prepare from my dear mum, (who > is so willing but has physical restrictions of her > own) we ended up eating a picnic in the car in > Asda car park. In back Mum, and me hardly holding > it together with maniacal laughter as 3 yr old > enjoys smearing yogjurt around and (of course) > daddy and grandpa blissfully unaware as they read > their newspapers in the front. > Anyway, I am missing out on valuable sleep here. i > wish you all some sleep tonight That's a great story about the carpark picnic. Humour really does help disolve the despair of sleepless nights. xx

I agree Fi's comment was, shall we say, badly worded, but let's not tar the whole thread and all it's posters with the same brush :( . Up to now, this was a lovely, interesting, diverse, and supportive thread! :) I hope one errant comment does't spoil the whole discussion.

It helps if you can nuture your sense of humour... http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,701679,729975#msg-729975

I think it ended last month. http://kids1.tate.org.uk/blog/?tag=kusama http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2012/03/showtime-yayoi-kusama-obliteration-room/ Edited to say that we missed it! :( Wouldn't it be great if somewhere local did a 'sticker wall'? :)

Off on a tangent, but interesting food for thought. Left to my own patterns, I know I wouldn't have monophasic sleep! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep

I saw this too. It's brilliant!

I had a great experience 2 years ago with the Oakwood Midwives who are based out of the Forest Hill Rd Group Practice. http://www.foresthillroadgp.co.uk/clinics.asp (see section on Antenatal Care). Unfortunately, I had a several bad experiences with the GPs and HVs at the practice, and we changed to a different group medical practice a couple of months after my daughter was born.

I was just looking at the Horniman website, trying to find out if they are open today. I couldn't find anything to say they aren't open. We're looking for places to take our 2 yo today too!

We have a Bugaboo Gecko, also out of manufacture. Husband pumped the tyres up at the local garage. It was fine. Just don't over-fill them. You could try a bicycle pump too maybe? xx

Little Saff's godparents have one, but they don't have kids!

This is an interesting article on sleep from the Journal of Sleep Medicine Reviews Oct 2011, 15(5), p327: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21295501 A excerpt from the abstract... If you don't have access to the full-text pdf, please PM me. I have a copy to share for personal use.

I think every mother has a bit of "super woman" somewhere (Ruth has A LOT!!). It can be hard to stay upbeat. I have days where I despair. Occasionally I even have a tiny moan, but I really try never truly to complain about my daughter's sleep, b/c she is amazing in so many other ways. It's swings and roundabouts. No child does everything perfectly. Belle's humourous point above it being really annoying when people "overshare" about how well their children sleep, is certainly applicable to all aspects of child development. People who have struggled with eg their child's speech or health etc probably don't want to hear ad nauseam about how healthy or talkative etc someone else's child is. I guess the exception is maybe when you can laugh about it with good friends. Little Saff has slept through about 6 times in 2+ years, but hardly ever has more than a sniffle. Whereas, my friend's toddler --same age as Little Saff-- has been rather sickly with colds, ears/chest infection almost every other month, BUT she has been sleeping 10-12hrs nightly from 8 WKS OLD. Arrrgh. Swings and roundabouts.

gillandjoe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thank you all for your posts - it feels better to > know that i'm not alone! However hearing that Joe > might still be waking frequently in two years time > is slightly terrifying! How do you cope?! Honestly, I don't know. There's just an element of getting on with it, part of being a mother I guess? To make matters worse when Little Saff was ~1 yo, she was already tall enough to start trying to climb out of the cotbed. We could have lowered the mattress another 6 inches, but then I wouldn't have been able to lift her out b/c of a chronic back problem I have. We tried taking the side off the cotbed, but it really wasn't all that helpful for either her or me. Around 13/14 mos, we bought a small double fouton for her room and sold the cotbed. I mostly sleep with her in her room. She sleeps well this way, and I can sleep too. Once or twice a week I try to sleep in my own bed with Hubbie, but it generally results in a 2AM wake-up call: Little tearful face appears in our doorway, holding blanket and teddy, saying, "Mummy, come back? I can't find mummy!" So it's back to her bed, for her and me both. All the "classic" type sleep training methods that invovle a lot of crying would mean a lot of sleep loss for me too. I can't afford to have flat out sleep loss b/c of other health problems. Also, anything that causes crying at bedtime or during the night, has had horrible knock-on effects on my daughter's daytime behaviour. That speaks volumes to me about bad sleep associations. B/c I'm a SAHM at the moment, with only one child, I'm happy to let her sleep progress at her own pace, within reason. Of course that doesn't stop me from wishing it were different! I'm hoping to go back to work soon. We might have to change our strategy then. We'll have another crack at some gentle sleep strategies, or have Daddy take over the nightshift. You may not think you can cope, but you will! Remind yourself of all the things at which your baby is brilliant, and hang in there. xx

Fuschia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.parentingscience.com/baby-sleep-pattern > s.html For anyone not having time to read the whole article (b/c you're just too shattered from lack of sleep -- I know the feeling!), here is an excerpt I found most applicable:

Recalling between 5-7 months, Little Saff's sleep was the worst, waking 5-6x nightly. I got really fed up with people offering me unsolicited advice, and particularly pissed off with people telling me that I HAD to do cc/cio, as if there are no other types of sleep help available! This on occasion from my own husband as well, bless 'im (and he wasn't even the one getting up in the night!). I don't think that normal sleep behaviour should ever be something that we seek too deeply to "fault". It's not anyone's fault that some babies wake more than others. I think one-size-fits-all advice isn't very useful, and it's probably best to seek individualised advice from an expert with an ethos that you like. In the end I used a "fade" approach with night time bottles, and a little shush-patting (but we still b/feed at night some times). It got us from 5x wakings down to just 1-2 wakings, which is where we still are at 2 years old. It's very, very tough, and very lonely sometimes. I have great sympathy for anyone with a difficult sleeper. I believe some babies (like some adults) just have a different sleep rhythm from others. I'm not a great sleeper, so the nut doesn't fall far from the tree. My oldest sibling (totally breastfed) was sleeping through from about 12 wks. Me? Still waking at 5-6 years old and older. Oh, and it's no surprise then that I was the last child! Hope things get better for you soon. Whatever decision you make, you're definitely not alone. And, yes, your LO is totally (exhaustingly!) normal. xx

Fuschia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think despite the unrealistic expectations > engendered by the baby industry it's absolutely > normal for an infant human. Agreed it's totally normal, and some elements of the baby industry do seem to thrive on misconceptions!